2021-07-01 04:18:20 <cbridge     > <j0anna> hi proteusguy how are you
2021-07-01 08:50:52 <cbridge     > <iv4nshm4k0v> a'34
2021-07-01 08:51:19 <eris[m]12   > yea i agree
2021-07-01 08:51:55 <cbridge     > <iv4nshm4k0v> (Well, it happens.)
2021-07-01 10:27:05 <veltas      > I am reflecting on how much stuff manages to get broken by politics in tech. And if you don't like the changes then you're a bad person for not appreciating their *intentions* enough to overlook the impact.
2021-07-01 10:28:16 <veltas      > Like I can't complain about GDPR or people say I don't care about data rights or something, but the only difference I see is that websites now steal all your data *and* blast you with annoying popups to ask i
2021-07-01 10:29:16 <veltas      > I managed to resist muscle memory for clicking "yes" on every dialog up until that change, now I actually find myself just clicking away important dialogs like I used to see tech-illiterates do
2021-07-01 10:30:46 <cbridge     > <iv4nshm4k0v> veltas: +1.
2021-07-01 10:33:33 <cbridge     > <iv4nshm4k0v> Though my impression is that a. "people say" mostly applies to the newer social networking contexts; avoiding those (in favor of, say, Usenet, BBSes and IRC) tends to avoid that
2021-07-01 10:36:50 <veltas      > Lately random videos I want to watch, like one recently about cryptocurrency, is locked on YouTube and I can't watch it without signing in and providing ID info to prove my age
2021-07-01 10:36:58 <veltas      > Apparently this is some kind of EU rule
2021-07-01 10:37:38 <veltas      > I have a workaround for now that "yewtu.be" lets me see those videos, I don't know how long that will last
2021-07-01 10:40:32 <cbridge     > <iv4nshm4k0v> veltas: http://invidio.us/ lists a plenty instances; I won't be concerned with any specific one going down.  Youtube revamping its "scrambler", or MPAA going all "it's DRM circum
2021-07-01 10:41:18 <cbridge     > <veltas> iv4nshm4k0v: I get shouted down on hackernews for this sort of stuff, I don't know how 'new' that is but it's mostly filled with older people
2021-07-01 10:42:25 <cbridge     > <veltas> Like Cliff Stoll was posting on there yesterday
2021-07-01 10:45:51 <eris[m]12   > rss + mpv is always there for you
2021-07-01 10:48:09 <eris[m]12   > (youtube channels each have an rss feed, and mpv integrates with yt-dl)
2021-07-01 10:49:31 <veltas      > eris[m]12: I use youtube-dl all the time, it's great. Unfortunately, the changes have broken youtube-dl (unless you sign in, and do the ID stuff I mentioned before, which youtube-dl allows)
2021-07-01 10:49:53 <veltas      > So youtube-dl is not a workaround
2021-07-01 10:50:14 <eris[m]12   > hmm, sad
2021-07-01 10:50:21 <veltas      > And that's why I'm concerned that invidious will stop being able to use these videos, although I think depending on where their servers are it won't matter
2021-07-01 10:50:32 <veltas      > I think it only affects European IPs currently
2021-07-01 10:50:53 <eris[m]12   > i cant imagine a vps outside europe is that expensive
2021-07-01 10:51:25 <veltas      > I could do it for free probably, using TOR
2021-07-01 10:52:53 <eris[m]12   > mm, very slow though
2021-07-01 10:54:53 <veltas      > mpv is also fantastic software
2021-07-01 10:55:02 <eris[m]12   > truly
2021-07-01 10:56:06 <eris[m]12   > im not in europe so no eu restrictions for me :^)
2021-07-01 10:56:27 <veltas      > I don't think there's anything I use regularly I'd class as 'fantastic software' that's on the web
2021-07-01 10:56:32 <eris[m]12   > not too happy about the eu situatiom here
2021-07-01 10:56:51 <veltas      > I don't know if the UK agreed to this or if Google is just vindictive towards the UK but I'm not in the EU
2021-07-01 10:56:57 <eris[m]12   > ah
2021-07-01 10:56:59 <eris[m]12   > ok
2021-07-01 10:57:04 <eris[m]12   > we're in the same boat
2021-07-01 10:57:04 <veltas      > Nevertheless I get hit by 'europe' rules
2021-07-01 10:57:41 <eris[m]12   > <veltas "I don't think there's anything I"> i think the web constitutes the opposite
2021-07-01 10:58:23 <eris[m]12   > truly horrible
2021-07-01 10:59:48 <cbridge     > <crab1> hihhi
2021-07-01 11:00:11 <veltas      > I am getting fed up of the conflation between the EU and Europe. I am in Europe, I am not in the EU. If the EU does/says something it's not "Europe" doing it. I am a European citizen, but not an EU citizen, b
2021-07-01 11:00:17 <veltas      > Apparently the UK sank into the ocean
2021-07-01 11:00:24 <eris[m]12   > pog!
2021-07-01 11:00:57 <eris[m]12   > taken long enough
2021-07-01 11:02:29 <veltas      > It annoys me because this careful choice of words is not unintentional, it's political. But I am just about done hearing complaints about Brexit. I have to suffer the actual real consequneces of Brexit, and t
2021-07-01 11:18:07 <cbridge     > <cmtptr> what does it mean to be a citizen of europe?
2021-07-01 11:19:01 <cbridge     > <veltas> A european citizen is surely a citizen of a european country
2021-07-01 11:20:59 <cbridge     > <cmtptr> ah, reading it again now and i see you said "european citizen", as in "a citizen who is european," and not as i had interpreted it as "a citizen of europe".  nevermind me, i am being
2021-07-01 11:21:33 <cbridge     > <veltas> Reminds me of how 'american citizens' are supposedly the US citizens
2021-07-01 11:22:25 <cbridge     > <veltas> Except that one is not as intentional
2021-07-01 11:26:57 <cbridge     > <crab1> it is already commonplace to refer to the USA as 'America' so I think that has become the normal use of the word american
2021-07-01 11:27:10 <cbridge     > <crab1> unless you are saying things like "american indian"
2021-07-01 11:27:56 <cbridge     > <veltas> It's commonplace in English certainly
2021-07-01 11:32:58 <cbridge     > <cmtptr> i've been thinking a lot lately about airplanes
2021-07-01 11:33:09 <cbridge     > <cmtptr> they sure are pretty neat
2021-07-01 11:34:17 <cbridge     > <veltas> Airplanes are another bit of tech ruined by politics
2021-07-01 11:34:35 <cbridge     > <cmtptr> there is nothing that isn't ruined by politics
2021-07-01 11:37:08 <cbridge     > <veltas> Bend over, sir
2021-07-01 11:39:44 <cbridge     > <crab1> The Wind Rises, it's called
2021-07-01 11:40:00 <cbridge     > <veltas> Ah I liked that movie
2021-07-01 11:40:25 <cbridge     > <veltas> Meloncholy though
2021-07-01 13:53:47 <cbridge     > <cmtptr> veltas, sorry i can't reply because i'm not registered.  but cool!
2021-07-01 14:52:59 <dave0       > maw
2021-07-01 15:26:18 <cbridge     > <crab1> maw
2021-07-01 15:36:33 <dave0       > maw crab1
2021-07-01 15:43:02 <cbridge     > <crab1> what up
2021-07-01 15:47:22 <dave0       > nuffing, just wasting time redaing hacker news... you?
2021-07-01 15:47:28 <dave0       > reading*
2021-07-01 16:13:34 <cbridge     > <crab1> Trying to figure out what I should be reading
2021-07-01 16:15:08 <cbridge     > <crab1> I am thinking I should read more about how processor design works
2021-07-01 16:15:47 <cbridge     > <crab1> That seems like it would be the next logical step after forth if I want to learn how things could/should be simpler
2021-07-01 16:16:00 <cbridge     > <crab1> in the computing world
2021-07-01 16:19:29 <lispmacs[work]> how do FORTH programmers handle structures of data, like when you have three or more pieces of data that needs to be attached to a variable, but you don't necessarily need to drop them all on t
2021-07-01 16:22:11 <lispmacs[work]> setters and getters, I mean
2021-07-01 16:22:36 <eris[m]12   > 
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2021-07-01 16:22:48 <eris[m]12   > various forths also have provisions for 'actual arrays'
2021-07-01 16:24:24 <lispmacs[work]> eris[m]12: so basically, just tie some setters and getters words to the memory offsets?
2021-07-01 16:24:33 <eris[m]12   > ?
2021-07-01 16:24:50 <eris[m]12   > you could sure
2021-07-01 16:25:02 <eris[m]12   > but you could also just index into them
2021-07-01 16:25:06 <eris[m]12   > like
2021-07-01 16:26:23 <eris[m]12   > : (index) cells + ;
2021-07-01 16:26:24 <eris[m]12   > : read (index) @ ;
2021-07-01 16:26:46 <eris[m]12   > of course
2021-07-01 16:26:55 <eris[m]12   > you can do any number of data structures
2021-07-01 16:27:04 <eris[m]12   > some forths have literal structs!
2021-07-01 16:27:15 <eris[m]12   > syntax is like  uhh
2021-07-01 16:27:33 <eris[m]12   > 
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2021-07-01 17:53:42 <cbridge     > <crab1> I don't know how much any of you are fans of scheme/lisp, but I keep forgetting and rediscovering how nice DrRacket is
2021-07-01 18:00:36 <crc         > lispmacs[work]: my forth has several data structures (including lifo buffers, strings, and arrays) built in, and others (such as structures w/getters & setters, key/value stores, linked lists) in
2021-07-01 18:05:12 <eris[m]12   > read a blog post recently and was wondering
2021-07-01 18:05:35 <eris[m]12   > how would yall solve the problem of needing to add two vectors of 3 length together into a third vector?
2021-07-01 18:05:40 <lispmacs[work]> crc: which forth was that again?
2021-07-01 18:05:45 <eris[m]12   > retroforth!
2021-07-01 18:06:03 <crc         > eris[m]12 is correct
2021-07-01 18:06:16 <eris[m]12   > the result the author came up with was
2021-07-01 18:06:20 <eris[m]12   > not the best
2021-07-01 18:06:21 <eris[m]12   > https://prog21.dadgum.com/33.html
2021-07-01 18:06:24 <eris[m]12   > here's the article
2021-07-01 18:06:48 <eris[m]12   > 
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2021-07-01 18:06:52 <eris[m]12   > and their solution
2021-07-01 18:06:55 <lispmacs[work]> i am running flashforth on an AVR chip. I just went ahead and wrote getters that pull from the appropriate array idx
2021-07-01 18:07:50 <lispmacs[work]> i don't know if retroforth structures could be ported over to flashforth
2021-07-01 18:08:30 <lispmacs[work]> retroforth does not follow standard forth, yes?
2021-07-01 18:09:06 <lispmacs[work]> but anyway, thank you, that does answer my original question of what FORTH programmers do
2021-07-01 18:09:10 <crc         > yes, it's non-standard
2021-07-01 18:10:20 <lispmacs[work]> does retroforth have a gemini page?
2021-07-01 18:10:44 <crc         > gemini://retroforth.org
2021-07-01 18:11:52 <lispmacs[work]> does NGA run on any interesting platforms, like embedded?
2021-07-01 18:12:31 <lispmacs[work]> or microcontrollers?
2021-07-01 18:13:27 <eris[m]12   > well, it runs on linux, people embed that :p
2021-07-01 18:15:41 <crc         > it's been run on a teensy 4.1, and a pic32 board. I'm currently working on gathering some smaller systems to work on adding in official support
2021-07-01 18:18:34 <lispmacs[work]> now that I've found the gemini wikipedia portal, I can do about 70% of my browsing in Lagrange
2021-07-01 18:19:32 <crc         > I use gopher, then gemini, then web if necessary
2021-07-01 18:45:27 <cbridge     > <mark4__> wait.. gopher is still a thing?
2021-07-01 18:47:14 <eris[m]12   > yes
2021-07-01 20:51:28 <crc         > gopher is alive. not exactly thriving, but still far from dead.
2021-07-01 22:09:50 <dave0       > nothing ever dies on the internet... someone put multics on the internet :-)   https://ban.ai/multics/
2021-07-01 22:36:43 <ttmrichter  > dave0: And even older: https://livingcomputers.org/Computer-Collection/Vintage-Computers.aspx
2021-07-01 22:37:33 <ttmrichter  > This is the oldest one I know of that's publicly accessible: https://livingcomputers.org/Computer-Collection/Vintage-Computers/Mainframes/CDC-6500.aspx
2021-07-01 22:37:50 <ttmrichter  > There's people I know who've put even older systems online in emulation, but they didn't make it publicly accessible.