2021-07-05 00:06:23 I was just wondering what the fireworks in Nashville were all about heh 2021-07-05 01:24:11 siraben: A celebration of FREADUMBZ! probably. I think that's what all the fireworks on July 4th are about. 2021-07-05 01:24:46 No independence day here, we weren't ever part of a European colony heh 2021-07-05 06:36:13 remexre: this is insanely impressive https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.25.3322&rep=rep1&type=pdf 2021-07-05 06:36:53 I've been looking for such a text on and off for a while, Forth presents a unique formalization challenge if one wants to do it faithfully (that is, taking into account immediate/compile modes, adding words to the dictionary and so on) 2021-07-05 06:38:02 Notably here they use the π-calculus to encode the semantics which is normally used for concurrent processes, I guess that turns out to be pretty natural for Forth. 2021-07-05 06:41:06 "The next step is to translate our specification into a format suitable 2021-07-05 06:41:07 for a proof assistant such as Coq [3] or Isabelle [10], so that it could be used as a basis for the formal verification of safety properties of Forth programs." 2021-07-05 09:44:26 ttmrichter, you have something against a nation celebrating its winning a war for sovereignty? 2021-07-05 10:02:27 its a bit ironic really 2021-07-05 10:06:12 freedom for me but not for thee 2021-07-05 10:08:02 the only day ill celebrate is 9/9 2021-07-05 10:53:09 I don't really get 4th July but hey, it's an excuse for food and seeing folks so I'm not gonna complain about it 2021-07-05 10:53:17 (although I'm not in the US so I don't celebrate it) 2021-07-05 10:53:48 hallo, nihilazo 2021-07-05 10:53:52 much the same way I feel about religious holidays, people deserve excuses to celebrate even if I disagree with the thing they're celebrating 2021-07-05 10:53:53 hi 2021-07-05 10:54:06 funny to run into you here 2021-07-05 10:54:21 I'm surprised that it's funny, bc I feel like I talk about forth a reasonable amount 2021-07-05 10:54:22 but hi 2021-07-05 10:54:40 haha, fair 2021-07-05 10:55:40 america's pontification(funny word!) about freedom is very funny to me 2021-07-05 10:56:05 considering the historic & current violations of freedom the american government partakes in 2021-07-05 10:56:48 yeah, I would agree w/ that 2021-07-05 10:57:02 but I don't disagree with 4th july. It's a celebration of a thing that isn't real, but so are most celebrations 2021-07-05 10:57:14 even birthdays were made up by the calendar 2021-07-05 10:57:20 (well, made up when we invented the calendar) 2021-07-05 10:57:32 birthdays are a scam made by the birthday cake industry to sell more birthday cakes 2021-07-05 10:57:37 and calendars 2021-07-05 10:57:40 :O 2021-07-05 10:57:49 obviously 2021-07-05 10:57:53 birthdays are a scam made up by mathematicians to invent more paradoxes 2021-07-05 10:58:00 fucking maths 2021-07-05 10:58:34 mathematicians: quick, we need some reason to talk about probabilities of things occuring in common among a random set in a sample 2021-07-05 10:58:38 is this the part where you sell the birthday scammers some software written in forth? 2021-07-05 10:58:46 mathematicians: *invents the birthday* 2021-07-05 10:58:53 I mean, you could make a birthday paradox calculator in forth 2021-07-05 10:58:56 might be a fun exercise 2021-07-05 10:59:14 dunno 2021-07-05 11:00:00 personally, ive never seen a maths 2021-07-05 12:00:59 Hiya 2021-07-05 13:42:58 siraben: huh, looking at figure 2, is there a fixed number of processes? I guess it could kinda make sense by analogy to how the actual hardware works, but "feels weird" to use pi-calc if you don't need to spawn new things 2021-07-05 13:43:09 I'm definitely not well-versed in it at all though, heh 2021-07-05 13:44:10 remexre: I also am not familiar with pi-calculus, and thinking about it more it's not clear to my why this concurrent channel-based model is better than say, standard operational semantics with different modules 2021-07-05 16:40:16 maw 2021-07-05 16:45:04 maw dave0 2021-07-05 16:45:11 maw crc 2021-07-05 17:15:28 this "all holidays are made up" take sounds like what i've have said when i was 12 and edgy 2021-07-05 17:16:39 the difference here is 'people deserve excuses to celebrate' ;) 2021-07-05 17:17:27 of course all things noteworthy are only noteworthy because humans attribute noteworthiness to them. july 4th is not "made up," the US was founded by revolution. it's natural and healthy to celebrate that 2021-07-05 17:18:35 im not one to celebrate the founding of the US, but hey 2021-07-05 17:19:27 you said it was ironic and then some weird comment about freedom 2021-07-05 17:19:36 yes 2021-07-05 17:20:06 july 4th is not about freedom, it's the birthday of the union 2021-07-05 17:20:43 union 😩 2021-07-05 17:21:24 yes that is a word that i wrote 2021-07-05 18:48:01 You people and your big endian calendars 2021-07-05 18:48:54 o/ 2021-07-05 18:51:24 Yeah it is a special kind of stupidity to seriously dwell on how special dates are 'meaningless', although I don't imagine anyone in here really has done that 2021-07-05 22:40:48 why would you want your calendar to be little endian?? 2021-07-05 22:42:04 ew little endian calendars 2021-07-05 22:42:08 heya imode 2021-07-05 22:42:16 hey siraben. 2021-07-05 22:42:31 or worse, calendar notations without a clear endianness like MDY 2021-07-05 22:42:38 i'm a staunch supporter of the imperial units system and even i admit that we write dates backwards in the us 2021-07-05 22:43:08 how are imperial units better than the metric 2021-07-05 22:43:19 or everyone else does, rather. i personally write datea correctly: Y-M-D 2021-07-05 22:43:28 subdivisions for length/liquids is not even uniform in imperial 2021-07-05 22:43:52 base 12 is better than base 10 fight me 2021-07-05 22:44:01 that's just for distance lmao. 2021-07-05 22:44:09 it's not even consistent base 12 lol 2021-07-05 22:44:13 isn't the argument usually that in practice being able to take a quarter of something is more useful than a sane system 2021-07-05 22:44:27 taking a quarter of 100 is 25. 2021-07-05 22:44:42 scale up and down as convenient. 2021-07-05 22:45:00 third, sixth, whatever -- more factors is more useful for humans 2021-07-05 22:45:00 discussing the weather with people in the US is confusing, maybe we should just use kelvin to fix 0 2021-07-05 22:45:24 Sure, that's what proponents say 2021-07-05 22:45:30 but calculations are terrible to do in imperial 2021-07-05 22:45:38 yeah 2021-07-05 22:45:49 fahrenheit is honestly not _that_ bad of a metric if you're looking to eyeball a number and say "wow that's hot" because the range fluctuates more rapidly. 2021-07-05 22:45:51 If I lay down 1500 13-foot rods, what's the total length? 2021-07-05 22:45:51 idk what the usual arguments are. the truth is it doesn't really matter, people are plenty smart enough to use either one, imperial has been around for longer and there is no compelling reason to switch 2021-07-05 22:46:09 "no compelling reason to switch" meanwhile billions of people are on metric 2021-07-05 22:46:09 ah, ##forth. 2021-07-05 22:46:20 imode: what did you expect heh cbridge 2021-07-05 22:46:26 where people will argue for literally anything so long as it's older than 70 years. 2021-07-05 22:46:50 let's not ignore the fact that current imperial/british customary units are defined in terms of metric, officially 2021-07-05 22:47:10 yeah tbh I'd be fine with that being the common state too 2021-07-05 22:47:12 if billions of people jumped off a cliff, would you? 2021-07-05 22:47:23 like, everything important is in kg/L/km, etc 2021-07-05 22:47:25 yeah I'd probably jump. 2021-07-05 22:47:28 if billions of people used a more uniform system for units, I would use it. 2021-07-05 22:47:32 but recipes don't try to make me measure out things in metric... 2021-07-05 22:47:33 imode: lmao 2021-07-05 22:47:43 if billions of people are jumping, it's probably to safety. 2021-07-05 22:47:53 are people just, like, in general, not aware of animal herds. 2021-07-05 22:47:56 remexre: I feel like that's a convention rather than a technical issue 2021-07-05 22:47:57 or stampedes. 2021-07-05 22:48:04 if you laid down 1500 13-meter rods, what's the total length? 2021-07-05 22:48:06 I've also heard that "mile" is more natural because it means "a thousand steps" 2021-07-05 22:48:11 which is a terrible argument since each step is 1.6 m 2021-07-05 22:48:20 LOL. 2021-07-05 22:48:29 I don't take 1.6m steps. 2021-07-05 22:48:29 cmtptr: 19500 m, just multiply 2021-07-05 22:48:32 and I got big ass legs. 2021-07-05 22:48:50 imode: yeah hence why that argument doesn't really work 2021-07-05 22:48:53 how is that any different from your feet example? 2021-07-05 22:49:05 cmtptr: because let's have it in miles or kilometers 2021-07-05 22:49:08 in KM, it's 19.5 2021-07-05 22:49:11 what about in miles? 2021-07-05 22:49:22 yeah the point is the scale is uniform. 2021-07-05 22:49:31 1500 * 13 = 3.69 miles, wtf 2021-07-05 22:49:33 I move a decimal point vs. having to recalculate everything. 2021-07-05 22:49:48 idc i like it just fine in feet 2021-07-05 22:49:50 powers of ten are useful in general. 2021-07-05 22:50:11 Yes. 2021-07-05 22:50:27 Imagine if units of information had an imperial system, madness! 2021-07-05 22:50:39 maw 2021-07-05 22:50:41 mega/giga/tera-byte, SI prefixes FTW 2021-07-05 22:50:54 ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. 2021-07-05 22:51:00 remexre: I think the worst part is when they get combined 2021-07-05 22:51:03 pounds per square inch 2021-07-05 22:51:05 powers of two are better for data imo. 2021-07-05 22:51:17 did that mibi gibi bullshit ever get formally adopted 2021-07-05 22:51:36 yeah. 2021-07-05 22:51:38 it did. 2021-07-05 22:51:40 imode: so mebi/gebi stuff right? 2021-07-05 22:51:46 yup. 2021-07-05 22:51:46 gibi* 2021-07-05 22:51:58 I don't mind the split. 2021-07-05 22:52:02 but I always use power of two units. 2021-07-05 22:52:23 I don't know why they're appealing in general. 2021-07-05 22:53:03 hm how would people do chemistry with imperial 2021-07-05 22:53:28 same way people do accounting with roman numerals :P 2021-07-05 22:53:29 you need kelvin, and a delta of 1 K = delta of 1 C 2021-07-05 22:53:33 hahaha. 2021-07-05 22:53:43 delta of 1 K = delta of ??? F 2021-07-05 22:53:49 ..tell me accounting with roman numerals isn't a thing. 2021-07-05 22:53:58 apart from like. 2021-07-05 22:54:00 ancient rome. 2021-07-05 22:54:02 it's been around longer, ergo it must be better. 2021-07-05 22:54:08 lol. 2021-07-05 22:54:13 yeah fuck it why switch. 2021-07-05 22:55:29 why wouldn't you just stick with K? 2021-07-05 22:55:29 imode: I grew up with metric, so when I saw imperial units for the first time I was like, this is probably some made-up example (like they do with random currencies etc. in kid's math problems) 2021-07-05 22:55:57 there's no reason the scale of kelvin has to be the same as the scale of celcius 2021-07-05 22:56:10 but it is 2021-07-05 22:56:58 yes but i'm saying that's hardly a point for why metric is better for chemistry 2021-07-05 22:57:01 does anyone know what the meaning of 0 F is? 2021-07-05 22:57:24 siraben: as someone who's grown up on imperial.. yeah. it's pretty bad. the only thing I actually do like is fahrenheit because the scale moves faster, so my ape brain can say "oh 40f that's much less than 80f, so it must be cold". 2021-07-05 22:57:35 cmtptr: because everything in thermodynamics and energy uses metric, otherwise you'd have to refine joule, watt, etc. 2021-07-05 22:57:38 maybe if I was accustomed to using two decimal places in celsius. 2021-07-05 22:57:58 you could just as easily define an absolute temperature unit based on fahrenheit 2021-07-05 22:58:29 0 F is -17.78 celsius, hm. 2021-07-05 22:58:53 sorry i'm typing on this goddamn motjerfuckibg touchscreen phone so i'm slow to respond 2021-07-05 22:59:52 imode: is there subdivisions of length smaller than an inch 2021-07-05 22:59:54 both celsius and fahreneit are arbitrary scales 2021-07-05 22:59:59 how do you talk about microns, nanometers 2021-07-05 23:00:07 mils 2021-07-05 23:00:14 mils? 2021-07-05 23:00:59 why are you trying to shoehorn a units system where it doesn't make sense 2021-07-05 23:01:16 LOL. 2021-07-05 23:01:19 i never said there is no place for metric 2021-07-05 23:01:19 siraben: 0F was originally the temperature of a particular brine of water, ice, and ammonium chloride 2021-07-05 23:01:24 I could say the same fuckin' thing. 2021-07-05 23:01:39 crc: if that isn't arbitrary I don't know what is. 2021-07-05 23:02:06 ya imperial units are completely illogical and unreasonable 2021-07-05 23:02:12 oh, it's really arbitrary. 2021-07-05 23:02:15 imode: also are your messages being relayed across the bridger? 2021-07-05 23:02:16 almost as bad as the stupid system they use in europe for time 2021-07-05 23:02:16 bridge* 2021-07-05 23:02:19 siraben: doubtful. 2021-07-05 23:02:22 cmtptr: are you able to see imode's messages? 2021-07-05 23:02:23 kinda okay with that bf. 2021-07-05 23:02:27 *tbf 2021-07-05 23:02:30 i mean how could anyone ever remember whether there's 6 or 48 or whatever it is hours in a day 2021-07-05 23:02:31 no 2021-07-05 23:02:35 lol ok 2021-07-05 23:02:43 MrMobius: oh you mean you don't love base 60?!?? 2021-07-05 23:02:50 mixed with base 24?!?? 2021-07-05 23:03:03 and whatever the fuck calendar you're using at any point in the world? 2021-07-05 23:03:05 ya theres just no way a normal human could ever use anything but base 10... 2021-07-05 23:03:08 eventually I'll ask cr.c to put me on ignore so I don't need to deal with fn bullshit cbridge 2021-07-05 23:03:35 there's like 3 people on the fn side? cbridge 2021-07-05 23:03:41 looool. 2021-07-05 23:03:48 yeah, uh, libera fuckin won. 2021-07-05 23:03:55 gg 2021-07-05 23:04:20 though it's hella forthy to refuse to admit when something is dead and then cling to it like it's the only thing holding your identity together. 2021-07-05 23:04:40 imode: kinda easy when you wipe the servers 2021-07-05 23:04:46 all bases are base 10 2021-07-05 23:04:49 oh I think if I mention imode then it doesn't send as well 2021-07-05 23:04:54 ah neat. 2021-07-05 23:05:07 wait if that was the case you wouldn't have been able to ask cmtptr. 2021-07-05 23:05:13 no i see you talking to imode 2021-07-05 23:05:23 lol. 2021-07-05 23:05:43 lol 2021-07-05 23:06:47 but this shouldn't send cbridge 2021-07-05 23:06:50 check with http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth/21.07.05 cbridge 2021-07-05 23:08:09 siraben: correct, messages containing cbridge should not be relayed