2021-08-02 00:40:42 <dave0       > maw
2021-08-02 10:35:23 <kathe       > hello. :)
2021-08-02 10:36:17 <eris[m]1    > hi!
2021-08-02 10:38:15 <kathe       > i don't much remember, but i used to hang around on the freenode thing.
2021-08-02 10:38:34 <kathe       > there used to be this russian guy who worked on some c-based forth.
2021-08-02 10:38:44 <kathe       > and there was "ttmrichter".
2021-08-02 10:39:02 <kathe       > i don't remember you "eris". sorry.
2021-08-02 10:39:23 <kathe       > all that was like 7~8 years back, i think.
2021-08-02 10:39:32 <kathe       > or maybe 10 years back. not sure.
2021-08-02 10:42:28 <siraben     > everyone's here now
2021-08-02 10:42:36 <siraben     > greetings
2021-08-02 10:42:47 <kathe       > greetings siraben. :)
2021-08-02 10:43:05 <kathe       > i don't recall interacting with you on the olden channel at freenode.
2021-08-02 10:43:23 <kathe       > did you go by some other handle?
2021-08-02 10:43:29 <siraben     > I was moderately active there
2021-08-02 10:43:40 <siraben     > I worked on a Forth for TI-84+ calculators
2021-08-02 10:43:52 <siraben     > but if you're talking pre 2018 then that's before I joined
2021-08-02 10:44:09 <kathe       > yes, i think i was here around 2010~11
2021-08-02 10:44:27 <siraben     > eris is new, looks to be connecting from matrix
2021-08-02 10:44:27 <siraben     > ah then I wasn't even using IRC back then heh
2021-08-02 10:44:43 <kathe       > i can't recollect the name of of that russian who used to troll everybody.
2021-08-02 10:44:50 <siraben     > what made you rejoin lately?
2021-08-02 10:44:56 <siraben     > ah I think I know who you're referring to
2021-08-02 10:44:59 <siraben     > I forget the name too
2021-08-02 10:45:36 <kathe       > i rejoined just out of curiosity.
2021-08-02 10:45:59 <kathe       > and then i found out that forth, inc. is working on a 64-bit swiftforth.
2021-08-02 10:46:09 <kathe       > that got me going. :)
2021-08-02 10:46:26 <kathe       > i prefer working under linux.
2021-08-02 10:48:50 <kathe       > what about you siraben? what do you currently do with forth?
2021-08-02 10:49:04 <eris[m]1    > im new, yea
2021-08-02 10:49:09 <siraben     > kathe: https://github.com/siraben/ti84-forth https://github.com/siraben/zkeme80
2021-08-02 10:49:24 <kathe       > eris, nice to know you. :)
2021-08-02 10:49:36 <siraben     > might pique your interest ;)
2021-08-02 10:50:23 <eris[m]1    > oh! you're the zkeme person!
2021-08-02 10:50:27 <kathe       > :)
2021-08-02 10:50:31 <siraben     > hehe, where did you hear about it?
2021-08-02 10:50:34 <eris[m]1    > nice to know you too, kathe!
2021-08-02 10:50:55 <eris[m]1    > i thought hey, there must be a forth for the ti
2021-08-02 10:51:21 <siraben     > I would recommend my ti84-forth project for that because it runs under TI-OS
2021-08-02 10:51:31 <siraben     > zkeme80 replaces the boot process entirely
2021-08-02 10:51:33 <kathe       > siraben, both of your projects look interesting. good going.
2021-08-02 10:51:48 <siraben     > kathe: thanks :)
2021-08-02 10:52:07 <siraben     > I wrote my own Z80 assembler in Scheme for zkeme80, because spasm-ng's macros really sucked
2021-08-02 10:53:30 <eris[m]1    > i dont have a TI ^^
2021-08-02 10:53:40 <siraben     > eris: you can run it on an emulator
2021-08-02 10:53:43 <eris[m]1    > was just a discussion about em
2021-08-02 10:53:44 <kathe       > siraben, have you heard of amforth?
2021-08-02 10:53:49 <siraben     > what OS and package manager do you have?
2021-08-02 10:54:03 <siraben     > kathe: first time I've heard of it
2021-08-02 10:54:08 <eris[m]1    > haha, i dont really have a use for a calculator OS
2021-08-02 10:54:23 <eris[m]1    > and dont worry about that - i do my packaging myself
2021-08-02 10:54:34 <kathe       > http://amforth.sourceforge.net/
2021-08-02 10:55:08 <siraben     > kathe: Oh, ok. zkeme80 only requires guile and make to build, ti84-forth requires spasm-ng
2021-08-02 10:55:10 <siraben     > kathe: looks interesting
2021-08-02 10:56:24 <kathe       > siraben: they are now also targeting the risc-v series.
2021-08-02 10:56:29 <siraben     > eris: I am curious about what OS you use, though
2021-08-02 10:57:51 <siraben     > ah, cool
2021-08-02 10:58:20 <kathe       > siraben: you work with coq! that's rather cool. good for you. :)
2021-08-02 10:59:06 <siraben     > kathe: yeah, totally different world than assembly + Forth. I'm studying mathematics and CS at uni :)
2021-08-02 10:59:19 <siraben     > I think they complement each other tremendously in unexpected ways
2021-08-02 11:00:11 <kathe       > i agree. so guess you must be also studying mathematical logic?
2021-08-02 11:01:15 <siraben     > Yeah, and type theory and category theory
2021-08-02 11:01:34 <kathe       > wow, way to go.
2021-08-02 11:01:50 <kathe       > siraben: but you won't be a commercial success.
2021-08-02 11:02:02 <siraben     > too early to tell :P
2021-08-02 11:02:04 <kathe       > though it would be intellectually and emotionally fulfilling
2021-08-02 11:02:24 <siraben     > academia and industry are both interesting
2021-08-02 11:02:42 <kathe       > siraben: unless you're thinking of going into chip design for intel. :p
2021-08-02 11:03:01 <siraben     > heh, too low level for me
2021-08-02 11:03:16 <siraben     > as in, I take assembly as the basis on which to abstract things
2021-08-02 11:03:34 <kathe       > siraben: do take a look at the book by the developer of latex.
2021-08-02 11:03:51 <kathe       > siraben: it shows you how to build correct algorithms using logic.
2021-08-02 11:04:00 <kathe       > to verify them.
2021-08-02 11:04:02 <siraben     > ah, Knuth
2021-08-02 11:04:10 <kathe       > no, i said "latex".
2021-08-02 11:04:17 <kathe       > i can't remember his name.
2021-08-02 11:04:18 <siraben     > Lamport then
2021-08-02 11:04:25 <kathe       > yeah, leslie lamport.
2021-08-02 11:04:26 <siraben     > Leslie Lamport
2021-08-02 11:04:38 <siraben     > yeah, TLA+
2021-08-02 11:04:51 <kathe       > correct. only, his book is about 'tla'.
2021-08-02 11:04:57 <kathe       > tla+ was invented later.
2021-08-02 11:05:14 <kathe       > that book is mind-blowing.
2021-08-02 11:05:26 <siraben     > Ah, thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep it in mind.
2021-08-02 11:05:31 <kathe       > google for "leslie lamport tla+".
2021-08-02 11:05:34 <siraben     > verifying concurrent systems is definitely something I want to look at
2021-08-02 11:05:53 <kathe       > he has a personal website offering the entire book in 'pdf' for free.
2021-08-02 11:06:05 <kathe       > siraben: you're welcome.
2021-08-02 11:06:21 <siraben     > what do you work in, if I could ask?
2021-08-02 11:06:28 <kathe       > i don't work anymore.
2021-08-02 11:06:29 <siraben     > do you use these technologies and/or Forth?
2021-08-02 11:06:50 <kathe       > i succumbed to severe mental exhaustion in 2002.
2021-08-02 11:07:00 <kathe       > which led to severe depression in 2003.
2021-08-02 11:07:08 <kathe       > and i just hobbled along till 2008.
2021-08-02 11:07:20 <kathe       > and again succumbed to severe depression in 2009.
2021-08-02 11:07:33 <kathe       > and have simply been a waste since 2010.
2021-08-02 11:08:18 <kathe       > sorry if all that has made you uncomfortable.
2021-08-02 11:08:28 <siraben     > I'm sorry to hear that
2021-08-02 11:08:28 <siraben     > that's fine, whatever one feels
2021-08-02 11:08:36 <kathe       > it was unwise of me to share such personal grief on a forum like this.
2021-08-02 11:08:52 <kathe       > okay, about forth.
2021-08-02 11:09:07 <kathe       > i read a book called "thinking forth" by leo brodie.
2021-08-02 11:09:14 <kathe       > and it all looked very interesting.
2021-08-02 11:09:19 <kathe       > so i started tinkering around.
2021-08-02 11:09:24 <kathe       > and i liked it. :)
2021-08-02 11:09:46 <kathe       > "thinking forth" was the first book i read after coming to my senses.
2021-08-02 11:15:31 <kathe       > of late, i had been considering working with ksh93 under illumos.
2021-08-02 11:15:47 <kathe       > but i don't see much of an avenue to make a difference that would count.
2021-08-02 11:16:05 <kathe       > then out of the blue popped up "thinking forth" again.
2021-08-02 11:16:15 <kathe       > and here i am.
2021-08-02 11:17:32 <siraben     > Thinking Forth is a great read
2021-08-02 11:24:45 <kathe       > i believe the forth community is full of hidden gems.
2021-08-02 11:24:57 <kathe       > like a community of geniuses.
2021-08-02 11:25:29 <kathe       > the sheer brilliance of mr. moore is quite evident in forth itself.
2021-08-02 11:26:59 <kathe       > somehow, genius attracts genius.
2021-08-02 11:27:40 <siraben     > no better place than IRC to attract like-minded people :)
2021-08-02 11:27:45 <siraben     > kathe: did you try to connect to freenode recently?
2021-08-02 11:28:36 <kathe       > siraben: in case you haven't yet, check out https://openlogicproject.org/
2021-08-02 11:29:00 <kathe       > siraben: start-off with https://forallx.openlogicproject.org/
2021-08-02 11:29:32 <siraben     > kathe: thanks
2021-08-02 11:30:32 <siraben     > I'm also very interested in type theory as a logic, because the while classical approaches broke a lot of new ground, they surprisingly don't translate too well into a computational system on which to verify work
2021-08-02 11:30:55 <siraben     > such is why in systems such as Coq and Agda, proofs are also programs
2021-08-02 11:33:31 <kathe       > siraben: check out the types forum by benjamin c pierce.
2021-08-02 11:33:37 <eris[m]1    > @siraben obscure linux distro
2021-08-02 11:33:40 <kathe       > siraben: it's at https://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list
2021-08-02 11:34:36 <siraben     > kathe: thanks
2021-08-02 11:34:57 <kathe       > siraben: you're most welcome. it's always good to help the next generation.
2021-08-02 11:35:09 <kathe       > siraben: especially those who are as promising as yourself.
2021-08-02 11:35:11 <kathe       > :)
2021-08-02 11:36:05 <siraben     > I'm flattered, thanks
2021-08-02 11:36:25 <siraben     > so much to learn still
2021-08-02 11:36:33 <kathe       > don't rush in.
2021-08-02 11:36:40 <kathe       > go one step at a time.
2021-08-02 11:36:45 <siraben     > of course
2021-08-02 11:37:02 <kathe       > keep the end in mind.
2021-08-02 11:37:15 <kathe       > that usually opens up pathways not known before.
2021-08-02 11:37:38 <kathe       > when you get to the right point in your journey, that is. :)
2021-08-02 11:40:05 <kathe       > siraben: one last link; https://softwarefoundations.cis.upenn.edu/index.html
2021-08-02 11:40:17 <kathe       > it's time for me to sign-off.
2021-08-02 11:40:21 <siraben     > kathe: hehe, I've been going through that!
2021-08-02 11:40:28 <siraben     > I've been working on the Verifiable C chapter
2021-08-02 11:40:34 <siraben     > finished the first one and most of the second
2021-08-02 11:40:38 <kathe       > siraben: good for you. :)
2021-08-02 11:40:56 <kathe       > siraben: nice knowing you. hope to see you around.
2021-08-02 11:40:57 <siraben     > Nice talking to you o/
2021-08-02 11:41:12 <kathe       > goodbye to everybody else too.
2021-08-02 23:55:04 <dave0       > maw