2021-08-04 00:09:16 <siraben     > KipIngram: I found my calculator again while digging through stuff in my house, so maybe the forth phase is coming again ;)
2021-08-04 00:46:09 <dave0       > maw
2021-08-04 01:03:19 <siraben     > KipIngram: when I don't have python I find myself using awk instead, it's similar in spirit
2021-08-04 03:45:45 <siraben     > ChanServ: is the log still up or is it just really quiet on fn? http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth/
2021-08-04 03:46:05 <siraben     > oops, crc ^
2021-08-04 04:04:58 <crc         > siraben: clog is still connected, but no one is chatting
2021-08-04 05:58:51 <siraben     > I see
2021-08-04 10:23:16 <KipIngram   > I've been told that Snobol does the "best" string handling, but I have no experience with it myself.
2021-08-04 15:04:58 <veltas      > KipIngram: Looks like the handling you get in any language with 'easy' converting between strings and numbers, and easy concatenation/storage
2021-08-04 15:05:08 <veltas      > But with highly archaic syntax
2021-08-04 15:05:21 <veltas      > So sounds fun but not really much to learn from it
2021-08-04 15:06:01 <veltas      > Just learn bash, PHP, Lua, etc
2021-08-04 15:11:03 <eris[m]1    > spare yourself from bash
2021-08-04 15:11:27 <eris[m]1    > shell is a horrible language and i say this as an avid user of it
2021-08-04 15:12:16 <acheam      > the things that make shell horrible are what make it great
2021-08-04 15:12:35 <eris[m]1    > true!
2021-08-04 15:12:41 <eris[m]1    > but shell is horrible
2021-08-04 15:12:49 <acheam      > there is no better tool to mcgyver unix utilities into doing something that they were entirely not intended to do
2021-08-04 15:12:57 <eris[m]1    > i have a fun code sample
2021-08-04 15:13:04 <eris[m]1    > lol, using unix utilities
2021-08-04 15:13:26 <eris[m]1    > there's a lot you can do with judicious use of shell
2021-08-04 15:13:52 <eris[m]1    > f () echo ${1#?}${1%${1#?}}
2021-08-04 15:13:56 <Zarutian_HTC> 
ACTION often dispenses with bash and uses tclsh instead

2021-08-04 15:14:01 <eris[m]1    > gah
2021-08-04 15:14:03 <eris[m]1    > matrix
2021-08-04 15:14:07 <eris[m]1    > `f () echo ${1#?}${1%${1#?}}`
2021-08-04 15:14:11 <eris[m]1    > there we go
2021-08-04 15:14:20 <eris[m]1    > can you guess what this does ?
2021-08-04 15:14:49 <f-a         > my guess is: someone had a stroke while at the keyboard
2021-08-04 15:14:54 <Zarutian_HTC> looks like perl line noise to me
2021-08-04 15:14:57 <eris[m]1    > no running it
2021-08-04 15:15:06 <eris[m]1    > this is valid shell
2021-08-04 15:15:09 <eris[m]1    > useful shell
2021-08-04 15:16:07 <acheam      > ooh reverses a string
2021-08-04 15:16:18 <eris[m]1    > nope
2021-08-04 15:16:18 <acheam      > i cheated though
2021-08-04 15:16:29 <acheam      > oh
2021-08-04 15:16:36 <acheam      > swaps second and first letter?
2021-08-04 15:16:44 <acheam      > ehr
2021-08-04 15:16:45 <eris[m]1    > your string is too short or your shell is utterly fucked
2021-08-04 15:17:05 <eris[m]1    > its a 'string rotate'
2021-08-04 15:17:06 <acheam      > oh maybe it rotates the string?
2021-08-04 15:17:07 <acheam      > oh
2021-08-04 15:17:12 <eris[m]1    > yea
2021-08-04 15:17:17 <acheam      > yeah I was testing with "12"
2021-08-04 15:17:23 <acheam      > then "123"
2021-08-04 15:17:24 <eris[m]1    > lol
2021-08-04 15:17:44 <acheam      > so much easier in forth :)
2021-08-04 15:17:51 <eris[m]1    > hold on, i can do swaps first and second
2021-08-04 15:17:56 <eris[m]1    > actually
2021-08-04 15:17:59 <eris[m]1    > im on a phonr
2021-08-04 15:18:07 <eris[m]1    > i dont want to type out that monstrocity
2021-08-04 15:22:13 <eris[m]1    > `f () echo ${${1%${1#??}}#?}${1%${1#?}}${1#??}`
2021-08-04 15:22:25 <eris[m]1    > this is a syntax error
2021-08-04 15:41:45 <veltas      > I actually quite like bash as an environment
2021-08-04 15:46:20 <veltas      > Shell scripting is fine, I don't use it for much. Only really where it's required.
2021-08-04 15:50:23 <veltas      > It's one of those languages I've not really learned, I just keep the manual around and reference it constantly
2021-08-04 15:50:54 <veltas      > If I got asked to write a shell script in an interview I'd probably be able to remember enough stuff to write something, not nicely
2021-08-04 15:52:51 <KipIngram   > veltas: That's very similar to how I operate.  Parts of bash I know pretty well and can produce on the fly, but I frequently look up more esoteric bits when I need them.
2021-08-04 15:53:31 <veltas      > Same with Makefile's and pretty much any DSL I use
2021-08-04 15:55:17 <eris[m]1    > ive learnt posix shell to its limits
2021-08-04 15:55:21 <eris[m]1    > bash is uh
2021-08-04 15:55:23 <eris[m]1    > scary
2021-08-04 15:55:42 <eris[m]1    > coprocs, arrays, new block types, new operators
2021-08-04 15:55:55 <acheam      > and none of its necesary
2021-08-04 15:56:48 <veltas      > This artwork is so much better and more meaningful than anything I see around me these days https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/aug/04/no-sense-of-safety-how-the-beirut-blast-created-a-mental-health-crisis
2021-08-04 15:58:21 <eris[m]1    > it is if u want to do stuff
2021-08-04 15:58:54 <eris[m]1    > new operators like ,, can do better than tr [:upper:] [:lower:] for instance
2021-08-04 15:59:24 <veltas      > As soon as you're processing actual data in bash I want awk or C
2021-08-04 15:59:51 <eris[m]1    > thats fair
2021-08-04 16:00:14 <eris[m]1    > bash has lovely things available to it but also horrible thingd
2021-08-04 16:00:19 <f-a         > thanks veltas
2021-08-04 16:00:43 <veltas      > f-a: You're welcome?
2021-08-04 16:03:12 <f-a         > for sharing that article
2021-08-04 16:03:16 <veltas      > Oh okay
2021-08-04 22:02:43 <ttmrichter  > acheam: "and none of its necesary"  Technically nothing beyond NAND gates is necessary.