2022-02-17 10:49:01 <lagash      > I'm curious if there are any "real" Android apps written with FORTH? I've glanced through the Gforth Android samples and they're cool and all, but I was hoping to see something more larger and concrete.
2022-02-17 12:13:34 <KipIngram   > vms14: I'm not joe9, but I like Forth because of its absolutely BEAUTIFUL simplicity.  It's hard to imagine a simpler approach to taking control of a pile of bare metal, and yet you can extend it as far as you want to.  It operates at all levels, from hardware interfacing to os, and it's the same "mechanics" all the way up.  It makes it possible to understand every single shred of software running on your
2022-02-17 12:13:37 <KipIngram   > machine (well, if it actually *was* the only software running on your  machine).
2022-02-17 12:14:05 <KipIngram   > I've long thought that Forth "most shines" in embedded applications; when you slap a big bloaty OS underneath it you rob it of a lot of its potential.
2022-02-17 12:26:42 <joe9        > KipIngram: well said.
2022-02-17 12:30:50 <joe9        > forth is beautiful. It took me decades to appreciate what beauty is though.
2022-02-17 12:33:56 <KipIngram   > Yes - when I first found it I liked it because it was RPN, like my cherished HP41CV college calculator.
2022-02-17 12:34:20 <KipIngram   > It was only after I got a deeper understanding of it that I understood how truly elegant it really is.
2022-02-17 12:34:56 <KipIngram   > It was "Forth Fundamentals, volume 1" by McCabe that really opened my eyes.
2022-02-17 12:35:37 <lispmacs[work]> ✨ 👁 👁 ✨
2022-02-17 12:35:55 <lispmacs[work]> sorry, just looking for an excuse to use those code points
2022-02-17 12:47:16 <KipIngram   > Nah - I like how it looks on my console screen.  :-)
2022-02-17 12:49:26 <f-a         > is there any way to get that mccabe book?
2022-02-17 12:52:44 <joe9        > now I have to try the McCabe book too. Thanks.
2022-02-17 12:53:05 <KipIngram   > I don't think it's in print any  more.  Volume 2 is still around, I think, but it's just a "glossary" that lists Forth definitions for a lot of the standard Fig Forth words.
2022-02-17 12:53:14 <KipIngram   > v.1 is the one that dives under the hood.
2022-02-17 12:53:22 <joe9        > f83 book by Dr. Ting is good too.
2022-02-17 12:53:40 <joe9        > I prefer f83 over figforth as it avoids the does complexity.
2022-02-17 12:54:15 <joe9        > or, f83 children over figforth or figforth derivatives.
2022-02-17 12:54:59 <lispmacs[work]> something I'm vaguely wondering about how you fuse together Forth and virtual memory / mmu systems
2022-02-17 12:55:24 <lispmacs[work]> I'm used BYOK forth a little but I think extended memory was still on the todo list
2022-02-17 12:56:36 <joe9        > lispmacs[work]: that is what I am working on with inferno.
2022-02-17 12:57:06 <joe9        > on amd64, I have 9ferno (a derivative of inferno) working without paging.
2022-02-17 12:57:31 <joe9        > I am replacing the userspace of dis vm and limbo with forth now.
2022-02-17 12:58:12 <joe9        > there is no need for paging and syscall switches on amd64
2022-02-17 12:58:52 <joe9        > without them both, my forth crude benchmarks show a performance equal to C userspace.
2022-02-17 13:13:12 <MrMobius    > joe9, neat. i would love to see your benchmark results if you end up posting them somewhere
2022-02-17 13:26:06 <joe9        > https://groups.google.com/g/inferno-os/c/LH9Hv6_FlMY MrMobius
2022-02-17 13:26:57 <joe9        > thogh there is not much forth involved there as I do sysread drop sysread between the two calls.
2022-02-17 13:34:16 <MrMobius    > joe9, thanks!
2022-02-17 13:35:01 <MrMobius    > ive been curious for a while what the speed tradeoff is on x86. it tends to be pretty large on embedded stuff like microcontrollers but I think some of the x86 magic can close the gap
2022-02-17 21:49:48 <Zarutian_HTC> joe9: hmm the Styx protocol looks usefull both to implement a client for and a server, perhaps in forth
2022-02-17 22:16:58 <joe9        > hopefully, in good time.