2022-06-18 04:19:56 <lisbeths    > I've been thinking more about what DGASAU said about krivine machines in the old server. Maybe the basis of a forth should be an abstract machine.
2022-06-18 13:14:51 <Zarutian_HTC> a technique muurkha told me about: if you need some word repeated x amount of times, push it x-1 times onto the returnstack and then call it
2022-06-18 13:15:41 <Zarutian_HTC> I imagine that something like a times word might be handy
2022-06-18 13:15:46 <Zarutian_HTC> lesse
2022-06-18 13:22:03 <Zarutian_HTC> : times ' (times) , (') , ; immediate : (times) r> dup cell+ >r swap dup 0= if drop exit then begin over >r 1- dup 0= until ;
2022-06-18 13:23:10 <Zarutian_HTC> s/>r swap/>r @ swap/
2022-06-18 15:44:32 <KipIngram   > lisbeths: Did he used to go by IRC nick asau?
2022-06-18 15:44:37 <KipIngram   > Years and years ago?
2022-06-18 15:45:06 <KipIngram   > Zarutian: that's a nifty trick.
2022-06-18 15:46:33 <lisbeths    > maybe it was asau
2022-06-18 15:46:51 <lisbeths    > this person always used the word krivine in the logs
2022-06-18 15:47:00 <lisbeths    > he said krivine machines were superior to forth
2022-06-18 15:47:19 <lisbeths    > and I told him you would still want to program a krivine machine concatenatively
2022-06-18 15:47:25 <lisbeths    > and he got mad and never came back
2022-06-18 15:49:11 <KipIngram   > Yes, I remember him as a very anti-Forth inhabitant of the channel.  For a while I tried to debate with him, but I wound up mostly feeling trolled and decided to spare myself the grief.
2022-06-18 15:49:36 <KipIngram   > But now I'm curious about what a krivine machine is, so I'm going to look that up.
2022-06-18 15:50:07 <KipIngram   > I've always thought regarding Forth as a virtual machine is a good approach.
2022-06-18 15:50:44 <KipIngram   > The Wikipedia article on krivine machines seems quite "computer sciency" at first glance.
2022-06-18 15:51:04 <KipIngram   > I've never quite felt the need to break out such big theoretical guns to grok Forth.
2022-06-18 15:51:29 <KipIngram   > For me, it's sort like, "Well, just look at it.  That's what it is."
2022-06-18 16:36:54 <Zarutian_HTC> re going under the other nick asau: I do not beleave so
2022-06-18 16:38:12 <Zarutian_HTC> re Forth machines: it might be my electronics centric view but I understand how to implement Forth directly in sequential boolea
2022-06-18 16:38:18 <Zarutian_HTC> n logic.
2022-06-18 16:39:32 <Zarutian_HTC> a lot of computer sciency stuff that seem to be originating in mathematics look too abstract to me
2022-06-18 16:40:01 <Zarutian_HTC> I want to get to the bits so to speak
2022-06-18 16:42:47 <Zarutian_HTC> aah, Jean-Louis Krivine a French logican (read: mathematician)
2022-06-18 17:05:04 <KipIngram   > Yes - I come from that same background, and have played quite a bit (on paper only, unfortunately) with hardware Forths.
2022-06-18 17:05:23 <KipIngram   > Mostly with an eye toward the Spartan 6 family.
2022-06-18 17:06:22 <KipIngram   > Yeah, that CS approach to Forth - it's always seemed to me like what they're talking about (with lots of fancy language) is regarding it as functional: the next state of the whole machine is a function of the current state of the whole machine.
2022-06-18 17:06:32 <KipIngram   > You can make anything functional if you zoom out that far.
2022-06-18 17:32:43 <Zarutian_HTC> I have half of mind to use some of the techniques used by Ben Eater in his breadboard computer to implement a Forth hardware machine
2022-06-18 17:50:00 <KipIngram   > I'm not familiar with that work.
2022-06-18 17:51:52 <Zarutian_HTC> whole series on youtube by him
2022-06-18 17:58:52 <KipIngram   > I found him.
2022-06-18 17:59:37 <Zarutian_HTC> see you next friday then! ;-)
2022-06-18 18:01:41 <Zarutian_HTC> meaning ya will probably loose hours watching those vids without realizing
2022-06-18 19:09:04 <KipIngram   > :-)
2022-06-18 19:09:35 <KipIngram   > My particular interest at the moment is in RF.  Breadboard isn't good for that.
2022-06-18 19:09:56 <KipIngram   > Dead bug on copper clad can work well, though.
2022-06-18 20:36:38 <KipIngram   > Right now I'm making a big tuned loop antenna for AM radio.  About 3' square, with nine turns.
2022-06-18 20:38:04 <KipIngram   > It's simple as pie; it's just a big inductor with a tuning capacitor in parallel with it.  In the AM band, though, it has a Q of 800 to 1500, so it pumps up the signals at the frequency it's tuned to a whole bunch.  Then you either  just put your AM radio down by it, or if your radio has external antenna inputs you put a loop of wire in the plane of the big loop and hook its ends to those.
2022-06-18 20:38:21 <KipIngram   > Of course now you have two things to tune, but that's just how it is.
2022-06-18 21:51:35 <Zarutian_HTC> "big inductor with a tuning capacitor in parallel with it" wait isnt that just a LC tank then?
2022-06-18 21:52:39 <Zarutian_HTC> get a crystal or other diode device and you basocally git the first stage of an AM reciver, no?
2022-06-18 21:54:44 <Zarutian_HTC> then say three stages of Emitter followers and you basically got an transistor radio from whenever transistors entered into wide spread manifacturing