2022-08-09 20:07:07 <vms14       > :D
2022-08-09 20:07:29 <crc         > Welcome vms14
2022-08-09 20:08:15 <vms14       > thank you crc, sorry for /query you, emacs erc doesn't seem to redirect and says I needed to be invited
2022-08-09 20:08:52 <crc         > No worries on the /query :)
2022-08-09 20:08:59 <vms14       > I have adnvanced a bit with my not so forth, now I'm trying to read the starting forth book
2022-08-09 20:09:24 <vms14       > the only reason I made a forth-like was to follow that book and I've just realized today
2022-08-09 20:10:03 <vms14       > btw I have variables that have colon word scope, it eases a lot the stack manipulation
2022-08-09 20:10:30 <vms14       > I don't have to rot swap and alike, I can 1 2 3 [one two three] bind
2022-08-09 20:10:51 <vms14       > 3 .three    sets a variable  three.  pushes the value on the stack
2022-08-09 20:11:20 <vms14       > I have globals too because normal variables won't escape a colon word scope
2022-08-09 20:12:00 <vms14       > even if a variable is defined in the global scope a colon word can use that initial value and change it, but changes won't survive once the colon word ends
2022-08-09 20:12:51 <vms14       > basically for every colon word being called the variables are stored before executing and restored to that value once the word ends
2022-08-09 20:13:14 <crc         > Can you modify a global and have the value persist?
2022-08-09 20:13:24 <vms14       > if you want to keep changes then use a global like  3 ..three
2022-08-09 20:13:46 <vms14       > two dots is a global, one a normal variable
2022-08-09 20:14:06 <vms14       > but it's quite different from forth
2022-08-09 20:14:32 <vms14       > https://termbin.com/0le9  this is the implementation
2022-08-09 20:15:04 <vms14       > https://termbin.com/abohc this is some code from starting forth adapted to my lang
2022-08-09 20:15:43 <vms14       > https://termbin.com/hxhl this is some bad and outdated documentation
2022-08-09 20:16:23 <vms14       > .+ ..+ and alike have been renamed to increment add rest and decrement
2022-08-09 20:17:16 <vms14       > and I use * to denote different behavior and ! to denote destructive behavior so for example increment* increments a global instead of a variable
2022-08-09 20:17:49 <thrig       > increment is a funny way to write 1+ or +!
2022-08-09 20:19:05 <vms14       > yes xD
2022-08-09 20:19:27 <vms14       > I was going to name it increment.by.one
2022-08-09 20:19:28 <vms14       > XD
2022-08-09 20:19:50 <crc         > http://sprunge.us/2m9sG9 would be my systems equivalent to your sample code; it’s nice to contrast different systems
2022-08-09 20:19:52 <thrig       > increment.by.one.in.twos-compliment.mostly.atomic
2022-08-09 20:20:35 <thrig       > granted folks with 300 baud modems might have been more conservative with their keystrokes
2022-08-09 20:20:51 <vms14       > :word in mine is accessing to a hash property
2022-08-09 20:21:01 <vms14       > actually setting it
2022-08-09 20:21:28 <vms14       > word: gives the value and :word sets it, like .var var. ..global global..
2022-08-09 20:22:09 <vms14       > I try to not think into performance btw
2022-08-09 20:22:13 <crc         > Would :word: work to both set and give a value?
2022-08-09 20:22:30 <vms14       > code is crap so why I should microoptimize
2022-08-09 20:22:35 <vms14       > crc nope
2022-08-09 20:22:52 <vms14       > would set a property named "word:"
2022-08-09 20:23:12 <vms14       > well idk which test goes first
2022-08-09 20:23:41 <vms14       > will give the value of  a property named ":word"
2022-08-09 20:24:08 <vms14       > and I was thinking in using :: to denote a package
2022-08-09 20:24:13 <vms14       > like main::some.word
2022-08-09 20:25:37 <vms14       > it only has basic stuff if if.else do.times while, hashes lists variables globals, words can also be a value
2022-08-09 20:25:44 <vms14       > and has persistent hashes :D
2022-08-09 20:25:58 <vms14       > I call them magic hashes xD I love them
2022-08-09 20:26:34 <crc         > 
ACTION has vague flashbacks of c++ on the ::

2022-08-09 20:26:43 <vms14       > 'file.name magic.hash .hash
2022-08-09 20:27:04 <vms14       > now hash is a variable which is a hash tied to a database named "file.name"
2022-08-09 20:27:18 <vms14       > if you set values will automagically be saved to the db
2022-08-09 20:27:42 <crc         > I’m assuming the main source is in perl?
2022-08-09 20:27:46 <vms14       > but sometimes if you exit the values won't be saved so you can use magic.flush to force a sync
2022-08-09 20:27:49 <thrig       > Common LISP uses :: for packages (or :)
2022-08-09 20:27:52 <vms14       > crc yes
2022-08-09 20:28:07 <vms14       > those hashes are DB_File tied variables
2022-08-09 20:28:21 <vms14       > you can run the lang with perl file.pl
2022-08-09 20:28:34 <vms14       > and accepts files to load as additional args
2022-08-09 20:28:44 <vms14       > has some file words btw
2022-08-09 20:29:06 <vms14       > . prints last element of the stack
2022-08-09 20:29:14 <vms14       > but if you use 'file.txt in.file
2022-08-09 20:29:21 <crc         > I’ll play with it a bit later this week; I’ve downloaded the source and your linked documentation to my dev box
2022-08-09 20:29:23 <vms14       > now . will print in that file
2022-08-09 20:29:43 <vms14       > crc I should really document it properly
2022-08-09 20:30:07 <vms14       > it was some words being rushed cause a guy asked me to document it
2022-08-09 20:30:20 <vms14       > also I'm using those hashes to provide a doc database
2022-08-09 20:30:48 <vms14       > if you have a .init.oh in your home will load it at startup
2022-08-09 20:31:08 <vms14       > https://termbin.com/i85g this is my .init.oh
2022-08-09 20:31:21 <vms14       > it defines the doc and document word
2022-08-09 20:32:05 <vms14       > 'main.oh "prints oh..." "none" "none" "meh" document     this will create documentation for a word named oh in main and save it to a db
2022-08-09 20:32:19 <vms14       > then you can 'main.oh doc   and will print all the info
2022-08-09 20:32:52 <vms14       > and I've made a very similar version in js
2022-08-09 20:33:01 <vms14       > vms.neocities.org/oh.js
2022-08-09 20:33:10 <vms14       > there's a repl in vms.neocities.org/oh.html
2022-08-09 20:33:28 <vms14       > you can draw rectangles :D it has aa canvas as a background
2022-08-09 20:33:54 <vms14       > 'canvas by.tag car set.context 'blue fill.color 0 0 30 30 fill.rectangle
2022-08-09 20:34:24 <vms14       > but I actually want to make the perl forth transpile to js with just forth words
2022-08-09 20:34:51 <vms14       > having packages I can just switch to 'js package and words like if if.else would write js code instead
2022-08-09 20:35:10 <vms14       > but I need to think about that, I'm not sure how I want to approach the generation of html and js
2022-08-09 20:37:08 <vms14       > and btw the word do.times expects now [code] number do.times   it was at the reverse order first
2022-08-09 20:37:16 <vms14       > I'm not sure the order it should have
2022-08-09 20:40:15 <vms14       > btw if you happen to play with it, it has no readline features, I use rlwrap
2022-08-09 20:40:35 <vms14       > it's very annoying if it has no readline features
2022-08-09 20:42:07 <crc         > in my system, that would be “count [ code ] times”; I’ve found it more useful with the count first (in terms of factoring)
2022-08-09 20:42:30 <vms14       > crc I think I'll expect the number first too
2022-08-09 20:42:50 <crc         > I have rlwrap,my systems don’t (yet) have readline type editing
2022-08-09 20:42:56 <vms14       > It was like that at first, I've just changed it now when making that thinking forth code
2022-08-09 20:44:17 <vms14       > I was actually wondering what order should I keep, but knowing you also have it like that I'll go for it
2022-08-09 20:45:12 <vms14       > seems dumb, but it affects to the concatenative stuff
2022-08-09 20:48:58 <vms14       > for some reason I'm enjoying comparing your example with mine
2022-08-09 20:49:32 <vms14       > the only word we have in common is : blip margin star ;
2022-08-09 20:51:26 <vms14       > crc how do you define a word that returns an adder
2022-08-09 20:51:56 <vms14       > a word that you give a number and will return callable code than then called with another number will sum both
2022-08-09 20:52:55 <crc         > I use `curry`:
2022-08-09 20:53:03 <crc         > #10 [ #33 n:add ] curry
2022-08-09 20:53:09 <vms14       > :0
2022-08-09 20:53:22 <crc         > This would return 43 when called
2022-08-09 20:53:46 <vms14       > I have this : adder '+ 2 list ;
2022-08-09 20:53:53 <vms14       > then you have to eval that list
2022-08-09 20:54:07 <vms14       > 3 adder eval
2022-08-09 20:54:34 <crc         > [ code ] is a quotation, basically just an anonymous word; curry binds a value and quotation into a new quotation that pushes the value and calls the original function
2022-08-09 20:54:41 <vms14       > oh, wtf it's doing what I thought I couldn't
2022-08-09 20:55:16 <vms14       > I wanted to do the next step which is making that word remember the value and go summing
2022-08-09 20:55:40 <vms14       > so every time you call it it will update the value for the next time
2022-08-09 20:56:02 <vms14       > but I have no closures so I couldn't find a way
2022-08-09 20:57:00 <vms14       > oh it's not doing it, but I think I could do it
2022-08-09 20:57:36 <crc         > The larger of my systems has a `does` word that can be used to do accumulators and such. I have an example of this at http://retroforth.org/examples/accumulator.retro.html
2022-08-09 20:58:40 <vms14       > I had immediate words, but I got rid of them cause the only immediate word I was using was ;
2022-08-09 20:59:08 <vms14       > as lists can be taken as code by eval you have a way to metaprogramming
2022-08-09 21:02:17 <vms14       > but I can't do that trick cause variables die
2022-08-09 21:04:09 <vms14       > I need to add closures somehow
2022-08-09 21:04:23 <vms14       > or variables that are retained in colon words
2022-08-09 21:08:10 <crc         > I’ve avoided actual local variables in my systems; I can simulate them using globals (as illustrated by http://retroforth.org/examples/local-variables.retro.html ) when I think they’d be useful.
2022-08-09 21:08:11 <vms14       > crc did you make some software with your forth?
2022-08-09 21:08:54 <crc         > Yes. I write programs using my forth daily.
2022-08-09 21:09:09 <crc         > - my web & gopher servers are written in my forth
2022-08-09 21:09:10 <vms14       > that's nice, that's really my goal
2022-08-09 21:09:27 <vms14       > use this lang as my main programming language
2022-08-09 21:09:41 <crc         > - my personal tools (editors, calculators, basic file management, etc) are all in forth
2022-08-09 21:09:48 <vms14       > I fear that may be too slow
2022-08-09 21:10:19 <vms14       > I try to not think in performance, but in letting me be happy
2022-08-09 21:10:33 <vms14       > but I wonder if the performance will end being a problem
2022-08-09 21:10:50 <crc         > - at work, we have a browser-based application written mostly in it; this is used to track all of the orders we process, as well as sales analytics, contacts, and messaging.
2022-08-09 21:11:13 <vms14       > so it transpiles to js or what?
2022-08-09 21:11:16 <crc         > I don’t chase performance.
2022-08-09 21:11:33 <crc         > No; the logic is all server-side
2022-08-09 21:11:39 <vms14       > :0
2022-08-09 21:11:47 <vms14       > I've added mine to apache with modperl XD
2022-08-09 21:12:06 <crc         > I’m not a fan of JS; I use it very sparingly.
2022-08-09 21:12:46 <thrig       > I liked it when node leaked memory in a tight loop
2022-08-09 21:12:53 <vms14       > I'd have no interest in js if it wasn't because if you want to reach the most users, logic says to make a web application
2022-08-09 21:13:32 <vms14       > nothing can compare to the deploy and portability of js, I mean it will run on iphone, mac, linux, windows, android, bsd...
2022-08-09 21:13:56 <vms14       > and can make a pwa which is installable and fool the users into thinking it's a native app
2022-08-09 21:14:15 <crc         > not for me
2022-08-09 21:14:44 <thrig       > js isn't very portable, needs a browser of the larger kind
2022-08-09 21:14:49 <vms14       > I want to somehow make this able to transpile some js code
2022-08-09 21:15:17 <vms14       > thrig: yeah but it reaches the biggest number of users by relying on a browser
2022-08-09 21:15:51 <vms14       > I mean, people has no home, but has a phone able to run js
2022-08-09 21:15:57 <thrig       > biggest number means basically Windows and android. that's unrelated to portability
2022-08-09 21:16:50 <vms14       > if you stick to android you loose all iphone users
2022-08-09 21:16:57 <vms14       > if you stick to windows, meh
2022-08-09 21:17:11 <vms14       > but js let's you target them all
2022-08-09 21:17:44 <vms14       > that's the only feature that can be interesting from js
2022-08-09 21:19:22 <crc         > Most users now have browsers with js. Doesn’t mean I need to use js in the applications I serve them.
2022-08-09 21:19:44 <vms14       > yeah, actually js is not really needed
2022-08-09 21:20:03 <vms14       > depends on the kind of application
2022-08-09 21:20:50 <vms14       > for example a game would need it, but almost all other kinds of applications could run without js
2022-08-09 21:22:00 <vms14       > I needed to hear those words btw crc
2022-08-09 21:22:25 <vms14       > I was putting focus on something I don't really need :D
2022-08-09 21:22:32 <vms14       > and don't even want
2022-08-09 21:23:08 <vms14       > btw what about KipIngram
2022-08-09 21:23:35 <vms14       > I missed him a bit :D
2022-08-09 21:26:13 <thrig       > align the scope better?
2022-08-09 21:27:11 <crc         > He’s been active here recently; not today though
2022-08-09 21:27:22 <vms14       > thrig: sounds the best option
2022-08-09 21:27:42 <vms14       > "have scope right" and not the shit I have
2022-08-09 21:28:26 <crc         > 
ACTION is going to be heading to bed soon; it’s getting late here

2022-08-09 21:28:31 <vms14       > I've had some scope by using packages in the first implementations
2022-08-09 21:28:39 <vms14       > see you crc, and thanks for everything :D
2022-08-09 21:29:16 <vms14       > but maybe I'll just make special variables
2022-08-09 21:29:31 <vms14       > idk, I don't even know if I'll really need them
2022-08-09 21:32:26 <crc         > My advice: add things as you need them. Best not to waste effort if you aren’t sure you have an actual use for them.
2022-08-09 21:34:39 <vms14       > I'll take that advice
2022-08-09 21:35:04 <vms14       > I'm looking at your docs
2022-08-09 21:35:07 <vms14       > https://gist.github.com/crcx/260308/d3d97fdc884558467221395c5d07c93af26aaedb
2022-08-09 21:35:40 <vms14       > I wanted something similar to 'save'
2022-08-09 21:36:05 <vms14       > but will only work for colon words
2022-08-09 21:36:58 <vms14       > I have 'contents' that pushes the body of a word
2022-08-09 21:37:49 <vms14       > words can be functions (builtins) lists (colon words) or any other value
2022-08-09 21:37:57 <vms14       > contents will push whatever the word is
2022-08-09 21:44:03 <vms14       > was nice to annoy you with random stuff, I'll go off for a while
2022-08-09 21:44:09 <vms14       > see you :D