2022-09-15 01:06:35 <KipIngram   > veltas: That's a cogent observation - harvesting fuel to pay for finding out where more fuel is.  I hadn't ever quite thought of it that way, but you're spot on.
2022-09-15 01:07:20 <thrig       > a.k.a. Energy return on investment (EROEI)
2022-09-15 01:07:30 <KipIngram   > As far as generating programs automatically, I think the corporations are totally hot to trot about the concept of not needing anyone with real skills.  They want to employ nothing but replaceable drones.
2022-09-15 01:07:59 <KipIngram   > An employee who actually does hard nothings not just anyone can do is a dependency that they'd rather not have.
2022-09-15 01:09:04 <KipIngram   > The notion of having mutually loyal relationships with outstanding employees is long dead - if it was ever there at all.
2022-09-15 01:10:11 <KipIngram   > I think you can find that here and there in small companies - because you can find everything with enough of a sample space.  But that kind of idea doesn't survive "scaling."
2022-09-15 01:10:56 <thrig       > pretty sure that got killed off in the 80s
2022-09-15 01:11:07 <KipIngram   > Sounds about right.
2022-09-15 01:11:38 <KipIngram   > I think there's been a general "decline of values" over roughly that time frame.
2022-09-15 01:12:00 <KipIngram   > Of course, maybe I'm just old.  Don't old farts always think the world's going to hell compared to "the good old days"?
2022-09-15 01:12:06 <KipIngram   > Maybe it's just my turn.
2022-09-15 01:13:21 <KipIngram   > But I can also remember Reagan and Tip O'Neil having strong political differences, but nonetheless finding themselves able to spend a day behind closed doors and come out with a compromise they could both smile about.
2022-09-15 01:13:37 <KipIngram   > Let's just say I couldn't possibly have imagined Trump and Pelosi doing that.
2022-09-15 01:16:27 <KipIngram   > Oh - the new modem came today and life's good again.  :-)
2022-09-15 02:58:30 <gordonjcp   > veltas: they also didn't have assemblers and wrote machine code directly in hex on bits of paper then typed it in
2022-09-15 06:39:20 <veltas      > gordonjcp: I need to do more programming on paper
2022-09-15 06:40:38 <veltas      > Helps design I think
2022-09-15 11:53:49 <KipIngram   > I'm a firm believer in "pre-planning."  I think it virtually always gives you a better result.
2022-09-15 11:54:08 <KipIngram   > Maybe on paper, maybe just sitting there looking lazy while you think.   But it's valuable.
2022-09-15 11:54:35 <KipIngram   > Paper just increases the amount of stuff you can juggle.
2022-09-15 11:55:44 <KipIngram   > But it's often the case that the guys that get "favorably noticed" are the ones that just dive right in and start pounding out code.