2022-10-02 06:29:14 <veltas      > joe9: Yeah sorry I'm not very active, this is the more active generic forth channel
2022-10-02 06:29:38 <veltas      > Although the mecrisp channels are quite active on whichever network they're on
2022-10-02 06:31:19 <veltas      > And the retro channel which I think is on liberachat
2022-10-02 09:49:40 <joe9        > anyone with experience on Green Arrays chips?
2022-10-02 10:41:49 <KipIngram   > No experience here, but I found some pretty good documentation on them once.  I'll see if I can find that again and link you to it.
2022-10-02 10:49:54 <MrMobius    > missed the original question. there is a mecrisp channel on libera but the main one is on hackint
2022-10-02 10:50:07 <MrMobius    > also #forth-hardware-projects on hackint
2022-10-02 12:21:50 <joe9        > KipIngram: ok, thanks.
2022-10-02 14:36:45 <KipIngram   > joe9: Check this out:
2022-10-02 14:36:47 <KipIngram   > https://etherforth.org/index.html
2022-10-02 14:37:25 <KipIngram   > Somewhere in there, I think they describe the architecture of a two-GA144 setup, where one is the "dev target" and the other one hosts a native development system.  There's info on how that dev system is implemented.
2022-10-02 14:37:58 <KipIngram   > They have functionality spread out across the array of the dev host GA144, and there's info on how the nodes communicate to achieve the goal of providing a dev system.
2022-10-02 14:38:22 <KipIngram   > So it's a good "example" of GA144 development, and I think finding things like that to study is probably the best way to get your head around GA144 development.
2022-10-02 14:38:55 <KipIngram   > It's very different from "traditional' embedded programming - in some ways it's more like designing a digital circuit, where different parts have different functions and they communicate with one another.
2022-10-02 14:39:34 <KipIngram   > Anyway, I didn't dig into that site and "refind" that dev system stuff, but I think it's in there somewhere.  If you can't find it let me know and I'll explore some more.
2022-10-02 14:44:25 <vms14       > Make a forth that boots in a smarth̀one
2022-10-02 14:45:04 <vms14       > Would it be too hard?
2022-10-02 14:45:07 <thrig       > probably will need one of them opensource phones
2022-10-02 14:45:42 <vms14       > I suppose touch drivers could be a mess
2022-10-02 14:46:17 <vms14       > Them make a forth powered phone
2022-10-02 14:46:54 <vms14       > you could name it Phorth
2022-10-02 14:56:04 <KipIngram   > Hah!
2022-10-02 14:56:08 <KipIngram   > I like it.
2022-10-02 14:56:44 <KipIngram   > But yeah, I think that the Android and iOS dev environments are kind of oriented away from the kind of freedom you'd really like to have for such a project.
2022-10-02 14:57:18 <KipIngram   > Android is based on something called the Davlik VM (or something pretty near that spelling).
2022-10-02 14:57:23 <KipIngram   > You might look into how it works.
2022-10-02 14:57:44 <thrig       > something about maximum consumer-producer mammon extraction
2022-10-02 14:58:44 <KipIngram   > Yeah - I kind of hate how the whole development arc of computers went toward catering to the lowest common denominator.  Makes sense, I guess, because it gets them the largest possible market, but I still dislike it.
2022-10-02 14:59:17 <KipIngram   > Hard to even imagine how things might be now if they'd spent those decades catering to power users.
2022-10-02 15:00:31 <thrig       > what if Woz instead of Jobs had ...
2022-10-02 15:01:53 <KipIngram   > Right!
2022-10-02 15:02:11 <KipIngram   > I mean, Jobs was kind of a genius about marketing that stuff.
2022-10-02 15:02:49 <thrig       > nerdy hackers are probably too busy doing memory offset calculations in their heads
2022-10-02 15:07:49 <vms14       > Seems the most logical option is to make a forth in java and bind all the android functions
2022-10-02 15:08:18 <KipIngram   > Yeah, that's probably the fastest way.
2022-10-02 15:08:25 <KipIngram   > But you know what Chuck would say.
2022-10-02 15:08:48 <KipIngram   > Write it in the processors assembly language and implement all the hardware interface code in your Forth.  :-)
2022-10-02 15:09:35 <KipIngram   > "WWCD?"
2022-10-02 15:09:49 <vms14       > But you won't have hardware documentation for stuff like camera wifi etc
2022-10-02 15:09:58 <KipIngram   > Yeah.
2022-10-02 15:10:01 <vms14       > Unless it's a open hardware project
2022-10-02 15:10:36 <KipIngram   > Which sucks.  When IBM first shipped the IBM pc, you could buy a "technical reference" that had full schematics and BIOS assembly listings.
2022-10-02 15:10:58 <KipIngram   > Those were the good old days.
2022-10-02 15:11:13 <vms14       > I wanted to make a forth in js just to make web apps instead of having to write java
2022-10-02 15:11:57 <vms14       > Also it wont be tied to android
2022-10-02 15:11:58 <KipIngram   > You could go get data sheets for all the chips (except you had to drive around to parts reps to find printed databooks - no internet), and they gave you example software for all of it.
2022-10-02 15:12:25 <vms14       > time ago hardware providers also delivered the software
2022-10-02 15:12:49 <vms14       > now everything is too complex
2022-10-02 15:12:56 <KipIngram   > Those were fun outings - we'd pile into the car and drive around Austin to half a dozen rep offices, and they'd take us to the room where they kept all the data books and turn us loose.
2022-10-02 15:13:11 <KipIngram   > It was like candy stores with free candy.
2022-10-02 15:13:19 <vms14       > hahaha
2022-10-02 15:13:25 <KipIngram   > I was with National Instruments in those days, at the very very beginning of my career.
2022-10-02 15:13:48 <KipIngram   > That was before they got big - before LabView.
2022-10-02 15:14:14 <KipIngram   > If I'd stayed put I might be wealthy now.
2022-10-02 15:14:28 <KipIngram   > But then I wouldn't have met my wife.
2022-10-02 15:15:07 <KipIngram   > I left to go back to graduate school.
2022-10-02 15:15:34 <KipIngram   > Oh, and I also got offered a chance to invest in this little-known company that was looking for investors.
2022-10-02 15:15:38 <KipIngram   > Called Xilinx.
2022-10-02 15:15:50 <KipIngram   > So if I'd done THAT I'd be wealthy now too.
2022-10-02 15:16:27 <KipIngram   > So I don't get to complain that I never had a chance.  I had a couple.
2022-10-02 15:18:11 <vms14       > Ae long as you're fine, it's fine
2022-10-02 15:18:27 <vms14       > and i think a wife is better than being rich
2022-10-02 15:18:30 <KipIngram   > Indeed, and I regularly think about how good life has been, so it is fine.
2022-10-02 15:18:58 <vms14       > Depends on the wife xD
2022-10-02 15:19:07 <KipIngram   > Got a wife I really like, a pile of great daughters that are all either off to a good start or look like they're about to be.  Not a lot more to ask for.
2022-10-02 15:19:12 <KipIngram   > 66
2022-10-02 15:19:14 <KipIngram   > ^^
2022-10-02 15:19:17 <KipIngram   > exactly.
2022-10-02 15:19:43 <KipIngram   > I didn't do so well the first go round on that, but the second shot has been great.
2022-10-02 15:20:14 <vms14       > first try was a test
2022-10-02 15:20:22 <KipIngram   > Practice, practice...
2022-10-02 15:20:50 <KipIngram   > Though I won't claim any particular skill in the endeavor - I think I just got really lucky the second time.
2022-10-02 15:21:27 <KipIngram   > I guess I had enough sense to hang on - I'd been dating around like mad that year (1995), and very carefully keeping everyone at arm's length.
2022-10-02 15:21:39 <KipIngram   > I had it in my head I didn't want to be married again.
2022-10-02 15:21:50 <KipIngram   > so at least I  kicked that idea to the curb when I met this one.
2022-10-02 15:22:22 <vms14       > cause you found one who deserved it
2022-10-02 15:22:41 <KipIngram   > Yes.  1995 was tons of fun, though...
2022-10-02 15:22:49 <vms14       > that's nice
2022-10-02 15:23:01 <vms14       > i was born in 1993
2022-10-02 15:23:02 <KipIngram   > Divorce was finall December 1994, and I met my now wife in January 1996.  I quite made the most of the year in between.
2022-10-02 15:23:16 <KipIngram   > Oh, my oldest daughter was born in 93.
2022-10-02 15:23:30 <vms14       > :0
2022-10-02 15:23:59 <KipIngram   > She's married and living in Austin, and May last year they provided my first grandson.
2022-10-02 15:25:37 <vms14       > I'm happy for you knowing you have a wife you love and formed a good family
2022-10-02 15:25:55 <vms14       > It's hard to see good couples lately
2022-10-02 15:27:47 <vms14       > almost all end being divorced, living a double life or staying together for convenience
2022-10-02 15:28:18 <vms14       > which is sad
2022-10-02 15:28:48 <vms14       > So yes, i think you're lucky :D
2022-10-02 15:33:16 <MrMobius    > re ga144, I would love to see a really thorough review where someone implements something non-trivial and compares it to a competing MCU
2022-10-02 15:33:34 <MrMobius    > ive only seen a few posts about blinking an LED or something
2022-10-02 15:34:23 <MrMobius    > im curious what the horsepower comes out to. it has memory on the order of an arduino
2022-10-02 15:34:29 <MrMobius    > arduino/8 bit AVR
2022-10-02 15:45:35 <Zarutian_iPad> stuff like dsp is more compareable to gal44 than avr
2022-10-02 16:05:42 <MrMobius    > hard to say without actually putting it to the test
2022-10-02 16:19:33 <remexre     > forth-troff people (thrig, veltas?): was the forth-troff idea to use forth instead of troff macros, possibly with some sorta TROFF-EVAL ( addr len -- ) word ?
2022-10-02 16:22:40 <vms14       > Lol ive looked for forth troff at google and tne first link is this
2022-10-02 16:22:43 <vms14       > Welcome to the #1 USA Gay Toy Store. We provide our customers with the best Gay toys on the market
2022-10-02 16:22:59 <remexre     > troff being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troff :P
2022-10-02 16:24:03 <Zarutian_iPad> vms14: toys that brings joy to well certain demographic
2022-10-02 16:24:23 <vms14       > Yeah i know, but expected to find some package or post about
2022-10-02 16:24:32 <vms14       > not cock rings
2022-10-02 16:24:34 <Zarutian_iPad> you might say it brings gay times!
2022-10-02 16:24:49 <Zarutian_iPad> and that is a lingustic joke of the day
2022-10-02 16:25:35 <vms14       > I saw some literate forth pdf some timeago
2022-10-02 18:17:20 <KipIngram   > MrMobius: That's exactly what I liked about that dev system project I found documented.  That's a fairly substantial application, and seeing how they chose to partition functionality across the GA144 cores was pretty enightening.
2022-10-02 18:18:24 <KipIngram   > what they wound up with in the end was something a whole lot like a typical Forth system, where you could edit blocks, compile and test them, and so on.  An actual usable interactive system.
2022-10-02 18:18:46 <KipIngram   > It all ran on one GA144, and would deliver the compiled code to the second one for testing.
2022-10-02 18:19:23 <KipIngram   > Somewhere in there there's also a nice description of how the "ether" communication process works in the GA144.
2022-10-02 18:35:00 <joe9        > KipIngram: thanks, that helps.
2022-10-02 18:54:07 <MrMobius    > KipIngram: I plan to get one and do a project with it to see but have 100 other things preventing me from getting to it
2022-10-02 19:03:49 <KipIngram   > MrMobius: I 100% know that feeling...
2022-10-02 19:12:18 <thrig       > : TUIT ... ; ( TODO )