2022-10-26 04:31:28 <olle        > \o
2022-10-26 04:41:01 <dinklebink  > o/
2022-10-26 05:08:29 <olle        > https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Files-Tutorial.html#Files-Tutorial
2022-10-26 05:08:34 <olle        > 3.27.3 Scan file for a particular line
2022-10-26 05:08:37 <olle        > Bit hard for me, that snippet
2022-10-26 05:08:54 <olle        > Why do they write "Create" instead of "create" or "CREATE"?
2022-10-26 05:09:10 <olle        > being while?
2022-10-26 05:10:14 <dave0       > i think being case insensitive is okay
2022-10-26 05:10:59 <dave0       > i think the main requirement is that all-uppercase works, and case-insensitive is an environment dependency
2022-10-26 05:14:57 <olle        > dave0: Yeah, just confusing to mix lowercase with PascalCase
2022-10-26 05:15:02 <olle        > In the same snippet ><
2022-10-26 05:15:11 <olle        > In that snippet, what's the end of "begin"?
2022-10-26 05:15:20 <olle        > Or what does being do?
2022-10-26 05:20:54 <dave0       > begin is where it jumps back to when it gets to the end of the loop
2022-10-26 05:21:07 <dave0       > loops end with REPEAT UNTIL and AGAIN
2022-10-26 05:22:41 <dave0       > olle: in 3.27.3 the UNTIL will jump back to BEGIN
2022-10-26 05:22:59 <dave0       > i've never seen ELSE used like that
2022-10-26 05:23:09 <dave0       > the THEN matches the WHILE
2022-10-26 05:23:28 <olle        > Doesn't "while" also start a loop?
2022-10-26 05:23:33 <dave0       > i think ELSE matches the WHILE too ... that control flow is hard to read
2022-10-26 05:23:44 <olle        > Glad it's not just me X)
2022-10-26 05:23:48 <dave0       > no, WHILE either continues or exits the loop
2022-10-26 05:24:29 <dave0       > UNTIL or REPEAT or AGAIN will jump backwards to a BEGIN
2022-10-26 05:24:47 <dave0       > WHILE either falls through to the next word, or jumps forward
2022-10-26 05:24:55 <olle        > Hmm
2022-10-26 05:25:00 <olle        > Need to read up on looping again, then
2022-10-26 05:25:48 <dave0       > the comments say the ELSE matches with the WHILE
2022-10-26 05:26:05 <dave0       > i wouldn't write it like that, but i'm still a beginner forthright!
2022-10-26 05:26:11 <olle        > Oh yeah
2022-10-26 05:26:12 <dave0       > forthwright
2022-10-26 05:26:24 <olle        > That's how it's called? :D
2022-10-26 05:26:51 <dave0       > ehehe
2022-10-26 05:31:54 <olle        > dave0: You also checked out other concat langs?
2022-10-26 05:33:19 <dave0       > olle: no, only forth
2022-10-26 05:33:57 <olle        > kk
2022-10-26 05:33:58 <dave0       > olle: i got sucked in to forth because it is highly interactive, which is completely different to c
2022-10-26 05:34:17 <dave0       > olle: then the extensibility got me
2022-10-26 05:35:39 <olle        > OCaml is usually my lang of choice, and it also has an interactive toplevel, but I never use it
2022-10-26 05:35:50 <olle        > I'm curious about the extensibility too
2022-10-26 05:36:12 <olle        > And to which degree Forth can replace or improve my bash habits
2022-10-26 05:36:32 <olle        > Or maybe even browsing via Forth, like checking news
2022-10-26 05:36:42 <dave0       > someone said learning any new language will make you a better programmer
2022-10-26 05:36:48 <dave0       > i think they are right
2022-10-26 05:36:58 <olle        > If it's another paradigm, probably :)
2022-10-26 05:37:02 <dave0       > i basically know c, it's all i've done for 10 years
2022-10-26 05:37:35 <olle        > ^^
2022-10-26 05:37:39 <olle        > Sounds like high salary
2022-10-26 05:37:45 <olle        > I'm a PHP web dev by day
2022-10-26 05:37:46 <dave0       > oh no i'm just a hobbyist
2022-10-26 05:37:57 <olle        > Ah got it
2022-10-26 09:56:34 <nature      > Hi, I am currently playing around with gforth to make a web server, did anyone in the forth community ever attempt HTML generation from forth?
2022-10-26 09:57:57 <olle        > Check 1.9.9.1
2022-10-26 10:02:43 <nature      > Pretty cool what was done in 1.9.9.1 indeed!  I'll definitely draw some inspiration there, but I was wondering generating complete html document from a forth dsl.
2022-10-26 10:03:09 <dinklebink  > anyone here fiddle with uxn at all?
2022-10-26 10:03:12 <nature      > For instance something that always impressed me was https://github.com/ruricolist/spinneret
2022-10-26 10:03:53 <nature      > dinklebink: I did but very little
2022-10-26 10:04:12 <dinklebink  > I'm looking for mini VMs to make a game in
2022-10-26 10:04:15 <dinklebink  > it looks good
2022-10-26 10:04:52 <thrig       > there's also the z-machine
2022-10-26 10:05:48 <dinklebink  > I need graphics
2022-10-26 10:05:49 <dinklebink  > lol
2022-10-26 10:05:55 <dinklebink  > I was more looking at varvara than uxn
2022-10-26 10:06:12 <nature      > uxn sounds perfect for making games in, I was actually diving a bit into it for that reason.  You can also leverage the whole ecosystem of tools made by devine to create your sprites etc
2022-10-26 10:07:33 <dinklebink  > nature, I kind of want to do like a strategy game
2022-10-26 10:07:44 <dinklebink  > but I just wonder, without a tilemap, will that be difficult?
2022-10-26 10:08:52 <nature      > I have close to no experience in game dev, so I can't tell you but you could go and ask questions on the uxn channel on irc.esper.net, they are quite friendly
2022-10-26 10:09:38 <dinklebink  > I sorta did but was waiting a while lol
2022-10-26 10:11:22 <nature      > otherwise just go ahead and do it, you'll realize soon enough (probably) :D
2022-10-26 10:19:47 <olle        > Hm
2022-10-26 10:20:30 <olle        > I got a link yesterday with good libs for xml
2022-10-26 10:20:48 <thrig       > no good can come of xml
2022-10-26 10:23:12 <olle        > html is xml?
2022-10-26 10:23:13 <olle        > kinda
2022-10-26 10:24:39 <thrig       > something evolved from SGML (like XML was) and there was a flirt with XHTML before the crazy train went HTML 5
2022-10-26 10:24:46 <olle        > nature: http://irdvo.nl/FFL/index.html
2022-10-26 10:24:50 <olle        > xml/html parser and writer
2022-10-26 10:24:52 <olle        > libs
2022-10-26 10:30:30 <nature      > nice thanks olle!
2022-10-26 16:53:01 <KipIngram   > Anyone know how to encode a backspace char in AppleScript (I think)?  I'm still trying to get that "don't let the computer lock" script to have  no effect on the input stream.
2022-10-26 16:53:29 <KipIngram   > Right now it shoves an "a" into the keyboard stream every five minutes - I'm trying figure out how to get it to shove an "a" followed by a backspace.
2022-10-26 16:53:49 <KipIngram   > Tried probably 50 possible ways of getting it, but no luck on any of them.
2022-10-26 16:54:03 <KipIngram   > Maybe I should have it nudge the mouse a hair instead.
2022-10-26 16:54:15 <KipIngram   > It could be like one pixel or something.
2022-10-26 16:54:17 <thrig       > can you tell it to activate some nonesense app, put the event there, then switch back to prior app?
2022-10-26 16:54:22 <KipIngram   > I don't immediately how to do that, though.
2022-10-26 16:54:30 <KipIngram   > Oh, that's an idea.  Change the focus.
2022-10-26 16:54:35 <KipIngram   > Good suggestion!
2022-10-26 16:54:40 <KipIngram   > I'll look into it.
2022-10-26 16:54:54 <KipIngram   > thanks
2022-10-26 16:54:58 <thrig       > tell application "Frobinate" to activate ...
2022-10-26 16:55:14 <thrig       > dunno about the "switch to prior bit"
2022-10-26 17:03:43 <Friithian   > can you not install caffeine or a similar program?
2022-10-26 17:34:10 <crc         > I think you do: tell application "whatever" key code 51 end tell
2022-10-26 18:44:21 <lagash      > nature: spinneret is great, we use it in Nyxt a lot :)
2022-10-26 22:12:51 <joe9        > any opinions on color forth?
2022-10-26 22:12:59 <joe9        > has anyone here tried it?
2022-10-26 22:13:06 <joe9        > I want to get into it.
2022-10-26 22:19:09 <KipIngram   > I haven't tried it, but I have an opinion.  Chuck delivered it as a stand-alone system.  It doesn't run "under any OS."  So unless you find or create come sort of "integration" layer for it, you're on your own when it comes... pretty much everything outside of Forth itself.
2022-10-26 22:19:21 <KipIngram   > Any equipment you want to work with, you'll have to interface, etc.
2022-10-26 22:19:40 <KipIngram   > If you want to do networking, you'll have to write the TCP/IP stack and so on.
2022-10-26 22:20:56 <joe9        > There is a simulator too, correct?
2022-10-26 22:21:03 <joe9        > I want to get that working on Plan 9.
2022-10-26 22:21:05 <KipIngram   > that said, I think all well-done Forths have a certain "joy of simplicity" in them; the feeling thatyou understnd everything, all the way down to the bedrock, and Im sure colorForth is no exception to that.  Plus it actually *is* a really elegant concept.
2022-10-26 22:21:13 <KipIngram   > I don't know - there may be.
2022-10-26 22:21:52 <KipIngram   > But you won't even be able to share your source code without some sort of "export utility" - Chuck stores it in his own "novel format."
2022-10-26 22:22:31 <KipIngram   > I see it as a lot like living on an Eden-like island.
2022-10-26 22:22:54 <KipIngram   > It may have everything you need to be self-sufficient, but you're kind of "cut off."
2022-10-26 22:28:27 <joe9        > it would actually fit with the Plan9 philosophy as it is easy to connect the different pieces due to the same 9p interface.
2022-10-26 22:28:48 <joe9        > I want to see if I can get Colorforth working as a plan9 application.
2022-10-26 22:32:06 <KipIngram   > That could be.
2022-10-26 22:32:14 <KipIngram   > I certainly don't mean to be criticizing it.
2022-10-26 22:32:28 <KipIngram   > I have quite a lot of respect for Chuck's work.
2022-10-26 22:32:39 <joe9        > me too.
2022-10-26 22:32:55 <KipIngram   > In theory you should only have to "tack it in" in a few places.
2022-10-26 22:33:00 <joe9        > Have you had any interaction with Chuck or Greg or Green array folks?
2022-10-26 22:33:16 <KipIngram   > key, emit, block-read, block-write; that might be all you needed.
2022-10-26 22:33:51 <joe9        > oh, ok.
2022-10-26 22:34:06 <KipIngram   > No, unfortunately I've only read stuff by Chuck and a couple of his peeps - mostly Jeff Fox.
2022-10-26 22:34:08 <joe9        > I hope this does not turn into a months long project.
2022-10-26 22:34:36 <KipIngram   > I think I would have quite liked knowing some of those guys.
2022-10-26 22:35:09 <joe9        > the svfig meetings seem to get Chuck out..
2022-10-26 22:35:24 <KipIngram   > Maybe I should try to see him  live before we lose him.
2022-10-26 22:35:58 <KipIngram   > Well, I seem to have gotten the "don't lock" utility working cleanly now.
2022-10-26 22:36:25 <KipIngram   > What wound up doing the job was telling the script to "key up" a character every five minutes, instead of key STROKE.
2022-10-26 22:36:37 <KipIngram   > Apparently it doesn't mind getting a key up on a key that's not down.
2022-10-26 22:36:56 <KipIngram   > So that event forestalls the lock, but otherwise does nothing as far as I can tell.
2022-10-26 22:37:00 <thrig       > until you find an app that reacts to keyups
2022-10-26 22:37:22 <KipIngram   > Maybe if I were in the middle of repeating a key it would terminate the repeat, but then it would just delay and start over.
2022-10-26 22:37:28 <joe9        > 19:35 < KipIngram> Maybe I should try to see him  live before we lose him.
2022-10-26 22:37:29 <KipIngram   > Right - until then.  :-)
2022-10-26 22:37:40 <joe9        > if you are, let me know. I would love to meet him too.
2022-10-26 22:37:50 <KipIngram   > Oh, ok - I will.
2022-10-26 22:40:15 <joe9        > do you live in the SW US?
2022-10-26 22:41:14 <KipIngram   > Not quite, but almost.  One state over and you're in the southwest.
2022-10-26 22:41:29 <KipIngram   > But that state is Texas, and I live not far from the eastern edge.
2022-10-26 22:41:45 <KipIngram   > So there's nigh on 800 miles of Texas between me and the west border.
2022-10-26 22:42:23 <KipIngram   > I'd spend the first day getting out of Texas, if I drove.
2022-10-26 22:43:07 <dinklebink  > do we have any Muslims here
2022-10-26 22:43:14 <KipIngram   > But if I'm going to get over that way, I'd like to also plan in some overnight for astronomy.
2022-10-26 22:43:24 <KipIngram   > Out under Bortle 1 skies.
2022-10-26 22:43:39 <KipIngram   > Big Bend National Park area is good for that.