2022-11-19 08:29:44 <KipIngram   > Ah, the taskset command and friends - that's kind of cool.
2022-11-19 09:43:24 <joe9        > for anyone interested there is an svfig meeting today for forth day. http://forth.org/svfig/
2022-11-19 10:11:13 <olle        > Cool
2022-11-19 12:00:56 <joe9        > forth meeting is starting up.
2022-11-19 12:10:46 <olle        > Can I watch without participate?
2022-11-19 13:31:11 <KipIngram   > Heh.  Just watched that "Showdown with a Tiger" scene from Kelly's Heroes, near the end.  That is just such a great scene.
2022-11-19 13:32:00 <thrig       > Shodan never was with a Tiger
2022-11-19 13:32:45 <olle        > Anyone know music notation and clef changing?
2022-11-19 13:36:47 <KipIngram   > A tiny bit.  My wife knows more and is sitting here - I can consult with her.
2022-11-19 13:36:50 <KipIngram   > What's up?
2022-11-19 13:37:15 <KipIngram   > It was decades ago, but she won a big scholarship to UT Austin by placing first in a music theory contest.
2022-11-19 13:37:32 <KipIngram   > And then majored in mechanical engineering.  :-)
2022-11-19 13:39:34 <KipIngram   > I think clef changing is done just to move a section of very heavily used notes that would be "outside the bar" into the bar, where it's just a little easier mentally to click to what note it is.
2022-11-19 13:39:57 <KipIngram   > But I imagine one would have to practice reading the music in the various cleff positions to get good enough to reap the benefit there.
2022-11-19 13:40:51 <KipIngram   > My wife says that's right - just to make the music easier to read.
2022-11-19 13:46:54 <KipIngram   > I think it would be quite a while for me before I could get comfortable with it.  I really only "know" treble cleff.  I mean, I know how middle C is related to both treble and bass cleffs, so I can count off into the base cleff and identify the notes.  But that's not the same thing as reading it on the fly.
2022-11-19 13:47:23 <KipIngram   > So for me, the bottom line of the staff is an *E*, and that's that - it would be hard for me to adjust to any other association.
2022-11-19 13:48:00 <KipIngram   > But I suppose if I practiced enough and in the right way, it could come.
2022-11-19 13:49:41 <thrig       > Every Good Boy Does Forth
2022-11-19 13:51:01 <KipIngram   > Damn straight.
2022-11-19 13:52:51 <thrig       > bass clef is Game Boy Defining Forth Applications
2022-11-19 13:55:38 <olle        > KipIngram: MuseScore is complaining, I think
2022-11-19 13:55:47 <olle        > But there's actually a #musescore channel here
2022-11-19 13:56:24 <KipIngram   > Oh, ok - no knowledge of MuseScore here.
2022-11-19 13:56:34 <olle        > KipIngram: Can you ask your wife if changing from treble to bass clef on one line would require you to also include the key signature, even if it didn't change?
2022-11-19 13:57:57 <olle        > OK, checking google too
2022-11-19 13:58:31 <olle        > https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/41349/does-a-key-signature-remain-the-same-after-a-clef-change
2022-11-19 13:58:38 <olle        > "
2022-11-19 13:58:38 <olle        > Yes the key signature remains the same. Piano music may have several instances where both hands play high and really there is no reason to reiterate the key signature when the change of clef is just to not use unruly ledger lines.
2022-11-19 13:58:42 <olle        > "
2022-11-19 14:02:01 <KipIngram   > My wife doesn't think so, but says she doesn't remember that for sure.  Then she amended that and said maybe you do, because if you don't there would be an implied key C.
2022-11-19 14:02:13 <KipIngram   > So, what if you WANTEd the key of C?  There's no way to write that.
2022-11-19 14:02:26 <KipIngram   > So "nothing,' she seems to think, would be key of C, just like always.
2022-11-19 14:02:38 <KipIngram   > Otherwise key of C would be unavailable if you weren't already in it.
2022-11-19 14:02:40 <thrig       > or you cancel the previous with neutrals to be explicit
2022-11-19 14:02:48 <olle        > Yeah, I guess something like that thrig
2022-11-19 14:02:54 <KipIngram   > Now, she's doing what I did - just logic-ing it out.
2022-11-19 14:03:00 <KipIngram   > Been a while for her too.
2022-11-19 14:18:40 <KipIngram   > You know, it's easy enough to get ncurses into Python.  But i don't really see any "full user interface" packages out there.  I mean something already able to create menubars, menus, dialogs, etc. etc.
2022-11-19 14:18:51 <KipIngram   > Looks like for the most part you get to roll that yourself.
2022-11-19 14:18:58 <olle        > gtk?
2022-11-19 14:19:08 <olle        > or you mean tui?
2022-11-19 14:19:11 <KipIngram   > tui
2022-11-19 14:19:13 <KipIngram   > ncurses
2022-11-19 14:19:33 <KipIngram   > The basic ncurses packages seems to support tiled windows and putting text onto them.
2022-11-19 14:19:37 <KipIngram   > And that seems to be about it.
2022-11-19 14:20:05 <KipIngram   > The panel package adds overlapping windows.
2022-11-19 14:20:52 <KipIngram   > There's another package called spaces, but it's not clear to me what it's capable of - the example supplied with it doesn't do much.
2022-11-19 14:21:13 <olle        > Hm
2022-11-19 14:21:32 <olle        > Maybe you could use an interactive prog lang instead of a tui...?
2022-11-19 14:22:43 <KipIngram   > Well, yeah - the other day I was advocating that applications should always START with a plain vanilla command line interface, to which you'd bolt your tui / GUI.
2022-11-19 14:23:07 <KipIngram   > So I was think just a little while ago maybe I should adhere to that, which would mean not thinking about the TUI too much yet.
2022-11-19 14:23:26 <KipIngram   > But it's a little hard to completely avoid some imagining about how I'd think it should work, and that might guide the CLI design.
2022-11-19 14:23:54 <KipIngram   > And the interface is only one part of this - the other part is doing the actual work.
2022-11-19 14:24:11 <KipIngram   > Properly stepping the drives through the right pattern of traffic.
2022-11-19 14:25:15 <thrig       > load testing software often has named sets to run
2022-11-19 14:26:25 <KipIngram   > Yeah; I call those "jobs."
2022-11-19 14:26:55 <KipIngram   > Job is a sequence of different "tests," each of which runs some traffic pattern for some period of time, or to some volume of traffic.
2022-11-19 14:27:13 <KipIngram   > Pattern can be arbitrarily complex - mixtures of block sizes, r/w mixes, etc.
2022-11-19 14:28:00 <KipIngram   > In my new case there will be the equivalent of two computers running each test - one through each of two NVMe connections to the drive.
2022-11-19 14:28:28 <KipIngram   > Currently that's two threads on one computer, so I can run it from one "session" of the traffic generator.  So sync is automatic.
2022-11-19 14:28:44 <KipIngram   > With it moving to two computers, I'll have to synchronize their start times.
2022-11-19 14:28:52 <KipIngram   > But that won't be too hard.  Little ssh handshake.
2022-11-19 14:29:10 <KipIngram   > Master / slave arrangement.
2022-11-19 14:29:28 <KipIngram   > Oh, I'm not really supposed to use that phrase anymore, am I?
2022-11-19 14:30:41 <KipIngram   > Fortunately the way this box is wired, one drive has the same PCIe port address on both of the "canisters," as we call them.
2022-11-19 14:31:23 <KipIngram   > Those two NVMe streams merge really fast inside the drive - most of the design is "a drive."
2022-11-19 14:31:46 <KipIngram   > so they both share the same logical address space.
2022-11-19 14:32:32 <KipIngram   > My tests don't do data validation, so I don't have to worry about one canister writing an address and the other reading it and deciding it's wrong.
2022-11-19 14:33:14 <KipIngram   > Though I think the way the tool does data validation is to include a hash in the otherwise random data blocks, so that test would probably pass on both canisters anyway.
2022-11-19 14:33:44 <KipIngram   > I don't know if it randomizes that hash in any way "per instance" or not.
2022-11-19 15:04:57 <KipIngram   > Ah, ok - package npyscreen seems to have some nice ready to go functionality.
2022-11-19 15:06:22 <KipIngram   > Even has a ready to go date picker and file browser/selector.
2022-11-19 15:13:31 <KipIngram   > Oh, this looks potentially interesting:
2022-11-19 15:13:33 <KipIngram   > https://urwid.org/
2022-11-19 15:13:53 <KipIngram   > That supports multiple client targets - not just TUI/curses but also web interface and so on.
2022-11-19 15:27:55 <KipIngram   > Ok, yeah - that urwid projects looks like a winner.
2022-11-19 15:28:16 <Zarutian_iPad> urwid?
2022-11-19 15:29:30 <Zarutian_iPad> oh, I see
2022-11-19 15:29:51 <Zarutian_iPad> ANSI escape sequences for terminal control
2022-11-19 15:31:57 <Zarutian_iPad> I wonder if this supports, sixels, regis, ripscrip, and naplps
2022-11-19 15:37:11 <KipIngram   > Dunno.  For console it uses curses, but it targets other outputs too.
2022-11-19 15:37:30 <KipIngram   > Haven't looked into the web support or how hard that is to set up.
2022-11-19 15:37:52 <KipIngram   > But for console I just said  pip install urwid and started running the exapmles.
2022-11-19 15:38:17 <Zarutian_iPad> there is an vt100or such terminal emulator in web js now, no?
2022-11-19 15:38:37 <KipIngram   > Maybe.  Not an area I've paid a ton of attention to.
2022-11-19 15:38:45 <KipIngram   > Sounds like it would be nice.
2022-11-19 15:39:14 <Zarutian_iPad> look into how asciinema does it or what it uses
2022-11-19 15:39:50 <Zarutian_iPad> asciinema is a pretty neat concept to for streaming your terminal
2022-11-19 15:39:53 <KipIngram   > Wow - one example does animated bar graphs.
2022-11-19 15:41:19 <KipIngram   > Ok, search over - this will do.
2022-11-19 15:43:02 <Zarutian_iPad> https://www.funraniumlabs.com/2021/02/the-archetypical-injury-my-nye-2020-benediction/ nifty. This kind of stuff was talked quite a bit about in the electrical safety course I took.
2022-11-19 15:54:33 <KipIngram   > Sounds about right.  I used to catch my guys constantly having bypassed the magnetic safety switches on the PnP machine we used for our automated programmers.  Because, you know, lifting that plastic lid is so so hard...
2022-11-19 15:55:50 <KipIngram   > I didn't get completely wrapped around an axle about it when we were using stepper motors, but later we put servos on and that think could probably take an arm if you stuck in the way.  I put my foot down on the issue pretty hard after that.
2022-11-19 15:56:43 <KipIngram   > And that article is exactly right - it was also the "super alpha macho" guys that were the worst  offenders.  Absolutely had that immortality thing rolling.
2022-11-19 15:56:58 <KipIngram   > It was "always" - not "alsO"
2022-11-19 15:57:04 <Zarutian_iPad> clear or shadowed plastic?
2022-11-19 15:57:23 <KipIngram   > Smoked plastic.  Plenty easy to see through, though.
2022-11-19 15:57:28 <thrig       > at least it wasn't the demon core they were cowboying
2022-11-19 15:58:31 <KipIngram   > I remember back in  high school when I worked for a local grocery store, we had a big huge box crusher that we used for all the cases stuff came in.  Had a big "neck that sloped down from the opening into the business part of it.
2022-11-19 15:58:54 <KipIngram   > Sometimes boxes would jam in that neck, and idiots that we were we could crawl down in there and kick them loose.
2022-11-19 15:59:00 <Zarutian_iPad> yeah, I worked with a PnP with such. Did not see enough through that damn plastic so I put in extra white leds into the thing
2022-11-19 15:59:02 <KipIngram   > I shudder to think about it now.
2022-11-19 15:59:28 <KipIngram   > A lot of the time grocery "refuse" would be in there, like the surface might be slippery with cooking oil or something.
2022-11-19 16:00:06 <KipIngram   > The sort of thing we just shouldn't have done, but at the very least should have had a lock and tag system to disable it, and didn't.
2022-11-19 16:01:03 <Zarutian_iPad> there is an Icelandic word bara which means just. Like in I am just going to do x, or can you not just do x etc which is always a first sign of trouble brewing
2022-11-19 16:01:26 <KipIngram   > But at the time it never even registered with me that it was dangerous.  Because "of course I wasn't going to slip."
2022-11-19 16:03:10 <Zarutian_iPad> I have used quite powerfull etching acids and the fun demonstration what it can do flesh makes all people follow the safety rules. The flesh standin is piece of pork btw
2022-11-19 16:04:29 <KipIngram   > Oh, urwid supports output to common LCD panels too.
2022-11-19 16:05:36 <KipIngram   > Looks like the web support uses CGI, but the docs say it's a proof  of principle only and needs work on security and responsiveness before it's production ready.
2022-11-19 16:05:49 <KipIngram   > So, maybe it doesn't *really8 offer web support yet.
2022-11-19 16:06:14 <KipIngram   > Ugh.  I think that would make me pay attention.
2022-11-19 16:08:08 <KipIngram   > When I was in my early 30's I rode around a good bit on a motorcycle.  Big hit with the ladies the year I was between long-term relationships.  Once in a while I'll see a guy on his bike, and kind of miss the fun of it.  But then I just stop and think about how all it would take is one bad event to either end me or cripple me for life.  I think  I'm past that phase.
2022-11-19 16:10:52 <KipIngram   > One morning the roads were icy and I was turning onto a highway and hit a patch of ice and laid the thing down.  All I could think about was the solid front of cars I'd seen coming down the highway that I was turning in front of.  I probably looked pretty frantic jumping and hauling that thing out of the road.
2022-11-19 16:11:14 <Zarutian_iPad> for more excitement I point people to lookup courses on how to trap and defuse a scuttlemine
2022-11-19 16:11:17 <KipIngram   > Ripped my leather jacket open at one shoulder.  I dusted off and got my wits back about me and drove on to work.
2022-11-19 16:12:16 <KipIngram   > There was a meeting with a sponsor (I worked in a university research lab) that morning, and wound up describing the event to him - I think I won points.  He said that anyone who'd just go on about their business after a significant spill like that was "alright."
2022-11-19 16:12:47 <KipIngram   > By that time I'd met my current wife but we weren't married yet - having her fuss over me when she found out about it was sort of fun.
2022-11-19 21:06:13 <dave0       > maw
2022-11-19 21:19:34 <KipIngram   > maw, dave0.
2022-11-19 21:19:58 <dave0       > hi KipIngram !
2022-11-19 21:20:10 <KipIngram   > So, I got pseudocode sketched out for the appliance master, appliance slave, and system controller aspects of this test control system I'm working on.
2022-11-19 21:20:30 <KipIngram   > The appliance pieces will be pretty straightforward - they're just straight-through, one thing at a time loops.
2022-11-19 21:21:35 <KipIngram   > The controller, though, has to be able to manage a whole collection of appliance pairs, running jobs in parallel, that may be all out of  phase, starting and finishing in any order, and so on.
2022-11-19 21:21:49 <KipIngram   > So it's loop will have to check status on each pair, and move on if they don't need attention.
2022-11-19 21:22:20 <KipIngram   > But, that's not too bad.  It just needs to know what it's waiting for on each pair, and if it doesn't happen yet, carry on.
2022-11-19 21:23:55 <KipIngram   > Just gonna use things like "ssh <target> 'echo <status value> ><status file'" to update status on other machines.
2022-11-19 21:24:29 <KipIngram   > So it'll have a status variable on each drive, and that drive's host will know how to find it.
2022-11-19 21:25:25 <KipIngram   > That kind of thing can get tricky, but in this case all the links are one-way and "single transmitter," so I think I can stay out of trouble with race conditions and other such funky stuff.
2022-11-19 21:32:58 <KipIngram   > What do you have going, dave0?
2022-11-19 21:34:07 <dave0       > KipIngram: not much! yesterday i went down a rabbit hole of Z80 and the zx spectrum!
2022-11-19 21:34:38 <KipIngram   > Wow - Z80.  Blast from the past.
2022-11-19 21:34:47 <dave0       > it's interesting!
2022-11-19 21:35:04 <KipIngram   > Oh, a lot of those gadgets from that era were interesting.
2022-11-19 21:42:17 <KipIngram   > The 6809 was probably my favorite of those early 8-bit ones.
2022-11-19 21:42:46 <KipIngram   > Then when the 68000 came a long I was a huge fanboy of that, but never got to work with it.