2022-12-12 07:57:47 <veltas      > Don't know if anyone uses vim but I've found this mapping works better than the built-in grep scripts  nnoremap <F10> :tabe<CR>:r !grep -rI '<C-R>/'<CR>
2022-12-12 07:58:11 <veltas      > I.e. press F10 and it opens a new tab with grep results for the current pattern register
2022-12-12 07:58:28 <veltas      > So e.g. use * on an identifier and press F10 and you get a list of places it's used
2022-12-12 07:58:51 <veltas      > And I just find that is easier to work with than the quickfix list window etc that the :grep command supports
2022-12-12 07:59:11 <veltas      > For one, it lets me keep that buffer as long as I want, it's not clobbered by new searches
2022-12-12 07:59:56 <veltas      > And I can easily yank the paths it shows and go to the relevant files (and then if I initiated with * F10 I can just press n to get to matches)
2022-12-12 08:00:22 <boru        > It's rare I use the grep facilities for it to annoy me enough; I mostly use fzf or the search facilities in CoC to poke around for something.
2022-12-12 08:00:46 <veltas      > I don't know what those are but yeah I'm guessing most people don't like the built-in grep facilities
2022-12-12 08:00:52 <veltas      > They just aren't very ergonomic
2022-12-12 08:01:22 <veltas      > Right now I can't get ctags installed on this system so I'm grepping a lot more than usual, but I often need to grep anyway
2022-12-12 08:01:41 <veltas      > (for IT approval reasons, not because I can't build it)
2022-12-12 08:01:42 <boru        > It's not that I don't like them, just that the others have become habit: fzf is a fuzzy search utility, and CoC is a completion/source navigation plugin, amongst other things.
2022-12-12 08:02:23 <veltas      > If it works and you're productive with it then great, I'm just sharing my mapping because I've found it so much better than :grep for me
2022-12-12 08:02:40 <veltas      > Hoping it might be useful to someone else
2022-12-12 08:02:51 <veltas      > But we all have our ways, everyone around me seems to use VSCode these days
2022-12-12 08:02:55 <boru        > Don't get me wrong, perhaps a nicer way to use the grep facilities would make me use it more.
2022-12-12 08:03:02 <veltas      > I tried it out for a while but just never got used to it
2022-12-12 08:03:38 <boru        > Yeah, vscode seems to have become popular. But honestly, vim can do everything it does with a language server and client (I use clangd and CoC for that).
2022-12-12 08:04:07 <boru        > There are others, of course, but I've found them to be lacking, clumsy or slow as molasses.
2022-12-12 08:04:33 <boru        > Naturally, you only really get the benefit working with languages where you can use LLVM.
2022-12-12 08:04:43 <boru        > The LLVM toolset, rather.
2022-12-12 08:04:50 <veltas      > VSCode seemed to fall down with buffer/window management
2022-12-12 08:05:05 <veltas      > vim just seems to be much more mature, why do we keep reinventing text editing....
2022-12-12 08:05:10 <boru        > I'm not just not a GUI person, generally.
2022-12-12 08:05:49 <veltas      > GUI support is useful in vim, for quickly moving to a point on screen it can often be easier to mouse click
2022-12-12 08:06:04 <veltas      > So I wouldn't even say it's "GUIs" that are the problem for me
2022-12-12 08:06:11 <boru        > I'm slower with a mouse.
2022-12-12 08:06:42 <veltas      > I'm not prescribing it, it's just productive for me to occasionally use a mouse
2022-12-12 08:06:56 <boru        > I think it's very task dependent.
2022-12-12 08:07:16 <veltas      > Also I'm not a fan of the "we're not inventing a config language" JSON settings file, because it's essentially a configuration language embedded within JSON
2022-12-12 08:07:26 <boru        > For some things, I don't have a choice (either enforced by the program, or what I'm doing)
2022-12-12 08:07:41 <boru        > All tools have warts.
2022-12-12 08:07:48 <veltas      > I mean, at that point just invent a config language, JSON is not the nicest thing to edit
2022-12-12 08:08:13 <boru        > I think the whole point of using JSON for them is that don't need to invent a config language.
2022-12-12 08:08:32 <boru        > I don't think JSON is anything great, but it's convenient.
2022-12-12 08:08:41 <veltas      > That's what I'm saying though, there's basically a pseudo-language they've invented within the JSON
2022-12-12 08:08:48 <veltas      > Because JSON doesn't really describe anything on its own
2022-12-12 08:09:06 <veltas      > And I think that would come across better if they just created their own DSL
2022-12-12 08:09:08 <veltas      > But whatever
2022-12-12 08:09:43 <veltas      > The main argument for JSON is it makes it easier to manipulate config in javascript I suppose
2022-12-12 08:09:50 <boru        > Personally, I'm not bothered by that. CoC, for example, gave me a lot when I got over the requirements (like node, barf), and the JSON bits. I've been through a lot of similar tools, and it's by far the best one I've used.
2022-12-12 08:10:42 <veltas      > Yeah not many people in here approve of node etc, but I think from our perspective it's clearer that it's not really a much bigger sin than using JVM etc
2022-12-12 08:11:24 <veltas      > There's just loads of langs and environments, it's not interesting to us anymore, we just want to get stuff done
2022-12-12 08:11:36 <boru        > Right.
2022-12-12 08:12:10 <veltas      > It's like text editors, I don't think anyone really cares what editor anyone uses anymore. Or it just seems a lot more silly to argue about now than it did before
2022-12-12 08:12:30 <veltas      > emacs/vim users probably have more in common than most people in tech at this point
2022-12-12 08:12:37 <boru        > It's less of a problem now that there's a lot more computational resources to waste, also.
2022-12-12 08:14:54 <veltas      > Also most people in industry seem to use free versions of software that require commercial licenses
2022-12-12 08:15:09 <veltas      > Not 'most' but like most young people and interns
2022-12-12 08:15:54 <boru        > They'll discover vim eventually.
2022-12-12 08:16:09 <veltas      > Like Obsidian
2022-12-12 08:16:21 <veltas      > The note taking app you need to buy if you use it commercially
2022-12-12 08:16:29 <boru        > Ah, I see.
2022-12-12 08:16:36 <veltas      > But they don't exactly rub this in your face when you go to download it
2022-12-12 08:16:54 <boru        > I wrote my vim plugin for that some time ago, but then switched to Rednotebook to be able to share things more easily.
2022-12-12 08:16:59 <veltas      > I've not tried because I don't really need a special purpose web browser for markdown editing
2022-12-12 08:18:11 <boru        > There are a lot of those around.
2022-12-12 08:18:21 <veltas      > RedNotebook looks liteweight af
2022-12-12 08:18:38 <boru        > I've got 60 A4 graph page notebooks on my shelf, so I went electronic because it was getting annoying to search for things.
2022-12-12 08:18:55 <veltas      > I write notes: on paper, in markdown, in HTML; depending on requirements
2022-12-12 08:19:16 <boru        > Yeah, it's lite. It's got a search feature, and a light weight markdown and can embed images.
2022-12-12 08:19:28 <boru        > And the calendar widget is nice to browse for notes manually.
2022-12-12 08:19:35 <boru        > No fancy features.
2022-12-12 08:19:41 <veltas      > Yeah it actually looks good
2022-12-12 08:21:45 <boru        > And a shortcut for inserting the date and time, which I use a lot.
2022-12-12 08:22:05 <veltas      > notepad.exe has a feature like that
2022-12-12 08:22:14 <boru        > I had that feature in my vim plugin, because it was nice to be able to track your thought process over the day. I tended to treat it as a logbook in that respect.
2022-12-12 08:22:32 <veltas      > Where if you call it .log it adds date and time stamps to what you add when you save it
2022-12-12 08:22:35 <veltas      > Nice
2022-12-12 08:22:54 <boru        > I wasn't aware it had such a feature.
2022-12-12 08:23:18 <veltas      > It's not very useful https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/how-to-use-notepad-to-create-a-log-file-dd228763-76de-a7a7-952b-d5ae203c4e12
2022-12-12 08:23:36 <veltas      > Oh sorry you literally write ".LOG" on first line
2022-12-12 08:24:52 <boru        > There's all sorts of little "easter eggs" like that in windows.
2022-12-12 08:25:11 <veltas      > I like easter eggs in corporate software
2022-12-12 08:25:12 <boru        > The comments in the MS DOS assembly listings, the treat-all-serial-devices-as-mice feature etc.
2022-12-12 08:25:15 <veltas      > Or just generally
2022-12-12 08:25:23 <veltas      > Like the quotes easter egg in notepad++
2022-12-12 08:25:33 <boru        > I've got more than one easter egg in low Earth orbit.
2022-12-12 08:26:02 <boru        > But I'll only divulge the details over a glass of whiskey when we get to know each other better.
2022-12-12 08:26:54 <veltas      > Not really sure how I'd integrate an easter egg past code reviews and source control without getting in trouble
2022-12-12 08:27:29 <veltas      > Hidden debug features sort of feel like easter eggs though
2022-12-12 08:27:30 <boru        > Late nights at the lab and beer, mostly.
2022-12-12 08:30:51 <boru        > Anyway, something that might help you get over your mouse usage in vim, if you don't use it already, is `set relativenumber`
2022-12-12 08:31:06 <veltas      > I do use that
2022-12-12 08:31:13 <boru        > 
ACTION nods.

2022-12-12 08:40:29 <veltas      > I use relativenumber and number
2022-12-12 08:41:02 <boru        > I imagine most people editing source with vim use number at the very leasy.
2022-12-12 08:41:06 <boru        > Least, even.
2022-12-12 08:41:31 <veltas      > It's nicer off on small or slow terminals
2022-12-12 08:41:40 <veltas      > If you want an old school feel
2022-12-12 08:41:44 <veltas      > Or find it distracting
2022-12-12 08:42:32 <veltas      > I hate the defaults that stuff like mingw seems to have for vim, I have to play whackasetting with :set etc to figure out what they turned on
2022-12-12 08:43:11 <boru        > You can't just copy your preferred .vimrc to your hime directory?
2022-12-12 08:43:29 <boru        > JFC, my typing is dreadful today.
2022-12-12 09:10:17 <veltas      > mingw seems to bake these settings in somehow
2022-12-12 09:10:42 <veltas      > I've never figured out how to stop this, just have to hunt each one down and set it to the correct default
2022-12-12 09:10:58 <veltas      > Please don't research fix for this, it's a waste of anyone's time at this point
2022-12-12 09:11:30 <veltas      > There are commands that i.e. return all settings to default values, I can't remember if that works but that might be necessary (or useless), and then there are things that aren't 'set' settings it doesn't cover
2022-12-12 09:11:39 <veltas      > Anyway don't look it up! That's an order :P
2022-12-12 09:12:20 <veltas      > The only good distro is a vanilla distro
2022-12-12 09:15:07 <boru        > 
ACTION chuckles

2022-12-12 09:24:32 <veltas      > set hlsearch is good too, but I tend to enable/disable it manually
2022-12-12 09:24:36 <veltas      > I usually want it off
2022-12-12 09:25:27 <boru        > I just have a keybinding for `noh` to cancel it.
2022-12-12 11:36:28 <KipIngram   > Most of you probably use tmux rather than screen, but I found that the default .screenrc and .vimrc content in my system resulted in an odd interaction around the escape key.
2022-12-12 11:36:52 <KipIngram   > It was like there was a noticeable delay before the escape key was actually "accepted."
2022-12-12 11:37:13 <KipIngram   > I wound up modifying .screenrc to change that behavior.
2022-12-12 11:41:43 <boru        > It irks me when systems ship "default" dot files and bugger things like that up.
2022-12-12 11:41:59 <boru        > I'm not in that position, usually.
2022-12-12 11:57:26 <thrig       > redhat vim is impossible to unbugger, compile a custom vim there
2022-12-12 12:20:11 <KipIngram   > Everyone thinks they know best.
2022-12-12 12:20:25 <KipIngram   > Have some personal vision that's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
2022-12-12 12:20:57 <KipIngram   > But from where I sit when you're typing along and suddenly things stall for half a second, that's not a desirable situation.
2022-12-12 12:21:09 <KipIngram   > I think the idea was to give you a way to type escape sequences manually.
2022-12-12 12:21:27 <KipIngram   > So it waits a beat for that follow-on key.
2022-12-12 12:22:06 <KipIngram   > Personally I think the foul up was made when they first decided to use a key that had a stand-alone usage as a "prefix' key in the first place.
2022-12-12 12:24:44 <KipIngram   > of course, I'm sure they were faced with a keyboard that was already all used, and they had to cram new functionality in SOMEHOW.
2022-12-12 12:46:51 <boru        > People use redhat? Wtf.
2022-12-12 12:47:02 <boru        > Intentionally?
2022-12-12 12:54:56 <jackdaniel  > redhot: chilli peppers edition
2022-12-12 13:47:40 <thrig       > wacky things like Cadence and other such tools require redhat...
2022-12-12 14:02:57 <KipIngram   > Oh, IBM *bought* Redhat, so it's a big deal internally.
2022-12-12 14:03:27 <KipIngram   > I've generally gone with CentOS instead, just because it dodges all the crap like subscriptions for support and so on.
2022-12-12 14:03:50 <KipIngram   > CentOS attempts to be "Redhat workalike."
2022-12-12 14:03:57 <KipIngram   > Just without the commercialized aspects.
2022-12-12 14:04:22 <KipIngram   > Except they don't really call it "CentOS" anymore.
2022-12-12 14:04:41 <KipIngram   > Currently it's Rocky Linux.
2022-12-12 14:05:01 <KipIngram   > And for all I know, with the name change they changed that "workalike" target too.
2022-12-12 14:05:13 <KipIngram   > But it's what I've got installed on that new test box at the office.
2022-12-12 14:05:23 <KipIngram   > And so far seems fine and dandy.
2022-12-12 14:17:12 <gordonjcp   > can't say I've ever felt a need to switch from Ubuntu
2022-12-12 14:17:24 <gordonjcp   > I used to use Arch, and prior to that Debian, and prior to that Slackware
2022-12-12 14:17:41 <gordonjcp   > DaVinci Resolve needs CentOS, but that runs just fine in Docker
2022-12-12 14:18:41 <KipIngram   > Yeah, Ubuntu has always seemed fairl worthwhile to me.
2022-12-12 14:18:56 <KipIngram   > They've gyrated around on user interface a bit over the years, but otherwise not bad.
2022-12-12 14:19:03 <KipIngram   > I think they were trying to accomodate tablets.
2022-12-12 14:19:13 <KipIngram   > But mostly gave up on that and went back to Gnome.
2022-12-12 14:19:35 <KipIngram   > That was the period during which they were Unity-based.
2022-12-12 14:19:51 <KipIngram   > I've always preferred Gnome.
2022-12-12 14:20:00 <KipIngram   > So I was happy to see it make a return.
2022-12-12 14:27:31 <KipIngram   > Tablets are neat and I have a fondness for them.  But damn, keyboards just have a tendency to work so well.
2022-12-12 14:27:44 <KipIngram   > They're hard to replace.
2022-12-12 14:29:53 <KipIngram   > I think maybe there are applications tablets can excel in.  But if you want to *develop*, you really need a keyboard.  And most of the stuff folks have actually *made available* for tablets are piddly little toy apps.
2022-12-12 14:31:42 <thrig       > they excel at aiding mindless consumerism?
2022-12-12 14:31:59 <KipIngram   > Well, they do do that, which was probably someone's goal.
2022-12-12 14:32:19 <KipIngram   > But for example, I've always thought it should be possible to do an electronics design environment on a tablet that was TOP DRAWER.
2022-12-12 14:32:30 <KipIngram   > Schematic capture, simulation, PCB design, etc.
2022-12-12 14:32:37 <KipIngram   > The whole nine years, with no compromises.
2022-12-12 14:32:45 <KipIngram   > But no one has ever "put it out there" that I've seen.
2022-12-12 14:32:54 <KipIngram   > Maybe a lot of other forms of CAD too.
2022-12-12 14:32:59 <thrig       > can tablet cpus handle the simulation and other cpu spendy bits?
2022-12-12 14:33:27 <KipIngram   > tablet + bluetooth keyboard is a nice pairing, but you usually have to putz around with making sure bluetooth is on when you want to use your keybard, off when you want to save battery, and so on.
2022-12-12 14:33:37 <KipIngram   > It feels like that could all be made better, more streamlined, etc.
2022-12-12 14:33:57 <KipIngram   > Just have the radio wake up every few seconds and see if it's near the keyboard, and if it is, connect, transparently.
2022-12-12 14:34:12 <KipIngram   > So you can just walk up, set the tablet in a dock, and start typing, without thinking any more about it.
2022-12-12 14:34:45 <KipIngram   > That's a fair question (tablet CPUs), but if the answer was no yesterday it will probably be yes tomorrow.
2022-12-12 14:35:04 <KipIngram   > And even if the simulation is a bit on the slow side, it could still BE there.
2022-12-12 14:35:13 <KipIngram   > Certainly all the user interaction could be done on a tablet.
2022-12-12 14:35:46 <KipIngram   > So write it so that the tablet can do the simulation, if you're willing to wait, or can offload it over a network to a server if you have one set up.
2022-12-12 14:35:58 <KipIngram   > Just be near your server, and the "tablet becomes more powerful," as far as you can tell.
2022-12-12 14:36:12 <KipIngram   > Again, TRANSPARENTLY.
2022-12-12 14:37:47 <KipIngram   > But I've played with a lot of tablet software, and mostly it all seems a little childish to me.
2022-12-12 14:38:00 <KipIngram   > Not serious "production software" to get serious jobs done.
2022-12-12 14:56:24 <KipIngram   > Hey, Artemis I splashdown went off nicely.
2022-12-12 14:57:21 <KipIngram   > I've waited a long damn time for more trips to the moon.
2022-12-12 14:58:29 <KipIngram   > I watched on live TV when Armstrong stepped down off of the lander on to the lunar surface.  I was six years old.
2022-12-12 14:59:15 <thrig       > the giant leap attacks you! roll THAC0
2022-12-12 14:59:58 <KipIngram   > Well, everything was just going so well on that front.  And then we just... stopped.
2022-12-12 17:28:22 <KipIngram   > https://github.com/typeforth/typeforth
2022-12-12 17:28:37 <KipIngram   > An in-progress attempt at a typed Forth.
2022-12-12 17:28:42 <KipIngram   > Perusing it for ideas.
2022-12-12 17:45:26 <KipIngram   > Seems rather complex and involved, though in parts of the process I haven't really thought through how I would handle.  May just be a "requisite" level of stuff to take care of.
2022-12-12 19:33:32 <lagash      > KipIngram: didn't the CERN just recommend using AlmaLinux recently?
2022-12-12 19:45:44 <vms14       > look at my shiny todo app
2022-12-12 19:45:51 <vms14       > it's two lines of not-so-forth code
2022-12-12 19:46:00 <vms14       > 'todo.db magic.hash :todo
2022-12-12 19:46:00 <vms14       > : #TODO todo: next.word 'end heredoc swap '. swap symbol ;
2022-12-12 19:46:21 <vms14       > now I can #TODO something
2022-12-12 19:46:41 <vms14       > and start typing the description on next lines until I write a line with "end"
2022-12-12 19:46:57 <vms14       > it will go automagically to a berkeley db
2022-12-12 19:47:14 <vms14       > and to look for a todo   todo: something. .
2022-12-12 19:47:19 <vms14       > :D
2022-12-12 19:47:55 <vms14       > it works both in the code and the repl
2022-12-12 19:48:21 <vms14       > the sad part is in the file will be updated every time the code runs
2022-12-12 19:48:53 <vms14       > btw now I've added sockets and async code (threads)
2022-12-12 19:49:00 <vms14       > [ some code ] async
2022-12-12 19:49:09 <vms14       > [ some args ] [ some code ] async*
2022-12-12 19:49:25 <vms14       > some args will be on the stack of that thread
2022-12-12 19:49:52 <vms14       > also there's a way to run a thread in the same way as async does, but to retrieve results
2022-12-12 19:50:10 <vms14       > I'm not going to add shared memory btw