2023-03-07 06:03:15 <JITn        > tux0r: Isn't it obvious [ ' : ' Value ' to ] could be inside a ' : construct?!  [ : a-word : a-constant 1 ; ... a-constant ... ; ] ?
2023-03-07 06:05:13 <JITn        > KipIngram: Perhaps ' to could Destructively Update a Factor with a ' lit : [ : V1 0 ; 1 to v1 ] ?
2023-03-07 06:08:54 <JITn        > 
ACTION .oO 17 MSb of AMD64 Address could be used for something...  BiBoP (Big Bag of Pages)...

2023-03-07 06:10:44 <JITn        > Data and Code should be in separate Cache Lines.  1 more Bit for BiBoP?
2023-03-07 06:20:21 <dave0       > imho it's a shame people are working around those pointers in amd64
2023-03-07 06:20:36 <dave0       > ie. using the high bits for flags etc.
2023-03-07 06:21:23 <dave0       > having addresses be "sign extended" was a clever feature to try and discourage putting data in the high bits
2023-03-07 06:21:58 <dave0       > i had an amiga with a 68000 which only addressed 24-bits so people put flags in the top 8 bits
2023-03-07 06:22:19 <dave0       > this failed when amiga switched to 68020 which had all 32 address bits valid
2023-03-07 06:22:50 <JITn        > What is the point of ""compiler""?
2023-03-07 06:23:12 <JITn        > In fact Data Structures?
2023-03-07 06:23:16 <dave0       > eh?
2023-03-07 06:24:33 <JITn        > Define a Tagged Union of Physical Memory Pointer and Tags?
2023-03-07 06:26:32 <dave0       > what?
2023-03-07 06:26:41 <JITn        > BiBoP is a General Idea.  A very simple example is allocating a Region for UTF-8.  So it can be identified from Addess.
2023-03-07 06:27:45 <dave0       > what's the point of such a hack?
2023-03-07 06:28:12 <JITn        > More efficient use of Memory.
2023-03-07 06:28:23 <JITn        > for a start.
2023-03-07 06:28:57 <dave0       > unless you're making billions of them, ram is not going to be an issue
2023-03-07 07:34:57 <KipIngram   > dlowe: While the sun is a "serviceable fusion reactor," unfortunately our ability to collect and use that energy is not as serviceable.  It's interfered with by weather patterns and so on, and in any given location there is a daily pattern of accessibility to that energy source.  These factors dramatically complicate the design of facilities to capitalize on it.  I don't want to knock solar energy - I think
2023-03-07 07:34:59 <KipIngram   > it's perfectly cool (no pun intended).  But I do not see it as a full resolution of our future energy needs.  Nuclear is really the only long term option we've got that will solve the problem without doing damage to our environment.  Analyses of solar efficacy rarely consider the full life cycle burden of the endeavor, and often fail to consider the associated "storage problem" and the full life cycle burden
2023-03-07 07:35:01 <KipIngram   > associated with it as well.
2023-03-07 07:37:07 <KipIngram   > JITn: Yeah, something like ' has to be involved.  The whole relevant point of a value is that when you "just execute it" you get... well, its VALUE and you do not get an address associated with where that value lives that you can use as to do an update.  The acquisition of such an address is precisely what ' does.  It's usually not the address that the value itself is specifically at, but you can use what '
2023-03-07 07:37:09 <KipIngram   > gives you to reach the needed address.
2023-03-07 07:37:35 <KipIngram   > In my system it would be ' foo pfa
2023-03-07 07:38:31 <KipIngram   > So I could do <new value> ' foo pfa 1, and if I needed to compile that it would be <new value> [ ' foo pfa ] literal !
2023-03-07 07:42:03 <KipIngram   > dlowe: The bottom line (in my opinion) is that if you waved a wand and imposed "the green dream" - made solar and wind our only existing energy resources - you would trigger an economic contraction that would make the Great Depression look like a hiccup.  We have outgrown the ability of such technology to supply our needs.
2023-03-07 07:43:05 <KipIngram   > I'm assuming that by waving your wand you also poofed into existence all of the handling of those life cycle costs I mentioned; an infrastructure that truly engaged in the whole necessary processes.
2023-03-07 07:43:32 <KipIngram   > Manufacturing of the solar cells and wind turbines, installation, maintenance, AND safe disposal at the end of their lives.
2023-03-07 07:44:54 <KipIngram   > Safe disposal of the batteries would be required as well.
2023-03-07 07:45:14 <KipIngram   > And batteries involve some damn nasty materials.
2023-03-07 07:45:48 <KipIngram   > It's all a setup that just looks so nice and sweet on the surface, but when you really swallow the whole pill it doesn't hold up.
2023-03-07 07:46:27 <KipIngram   > Problem is that politicians like AOC don't talk about the whole pill.  They only talk about the sugary coating.
2023-03-07 07:47:34 <KipIngram   > I hope that the reason for that is ignorance rather than malice, because if it's ignorance it's just a lot more forgivable.
2023-03-07 07:52:50 <KipIngram   > I don't mean malice in the sense of wanting to do "badness."  I just mean malice in the sense of "recognizing ignorance in the constituency, and choosing to exploit it."
2023-03-07 08:05:34 <veltas      > RAM is always an issue, maybe I want to run more than like 10 apps on my PC. Maybe I want to run more than like 10 apps on my old laptop....
2023-03-07 08:05:43 <veltas      > You run out faster than you (or most devs apparently) think
2023-03-07 08:06:17 <veltas      > Just insane the approach of today running a whole web browser per simple program
2023-03-07 09:01:11 <JITn        > veltas: That is where Cloud will cash in by running KiB:s of Apps and billing GiB:s for Linux Container and what not.  I guess that they have a ""compiler"" or whatever that removes JSON by some kind of Dead-Code Elimination.  Obviously they will keep Users oblivious to such ""comiler"".  Sinful though for Users.
2023-03-07 09:02:43 <JITn        > When a ""developer"" becomes the ""user"", if I can paraphrase ""Nature"": when hunter becomes the hunted.
2023-03-07 09:03:43 <JITn        > KipIngram: Shouldn't We have ' at that return the Address of a ' Value to be IMMEDIATE:ly used by ' ! ?!
2023-03-07 09:05:33 <JITn        > If it is not obvious, [ it to v1 ] and [ it at v1 ! ] are essentially same.
2023-03-07 10:48:02 <KipIngram   > Well, you can bundle all this any way you like.  It's just conventional for ' to return the CFA of the word it parses out of the input stream.  The CFA isn't where the value goes, so you have to do something further to that address to get the address of the value.  If you want a word "at" that does the ' part and the further conversion part in one step, sure - that's not a problem.
2023-03-07 10:48:14 <KipIngram   > : at  ' pfa ;
2023-03-07 10:48:33 <KipIngram   > <vallue> at foo !
2023-03-07 10:49:12 <KipIngram   > : to  at ! ;
2023-03-07 11:16:22 <JITn        > KipIngram: Thank You.
2023-03-07 22:45:32 <KipIngram   > It's pretty clear that Tokien was rather down on technology.
2023-03-07 22:46:09 <KipIngram   > What he really didn't like was factory / assembly line type operations, but I don't think it was an accident that both Sauron and Aruman were associated with the ValAr Aule, the craftsman.
2023-03-07 22:46:37 <KipIngram   > It's almost as though Tolkien regards an excessive yearing to "create" as a dangerous behavior.
2023-03-07 22:48:29 <KipIngram   > Aule almost got into trouble with the big guy for creating the dwarves.
2023-03-07 22:49:19 <KipIngram   > They couldn't do anything; he had to "will them around" like dolls at first.  The big guy felt Aule was suitably humber about it when he called him out, though, so he "lit them up" with real life.
2023-03-07 22:49:27 <KipIngram   > humble
2023-03-07 22:56:40 <thrig       > it's not like factory production got out of hand in the Great War or anything
2023-03-07 23:00:53 <KipIngram   > Heh.  No, not at all.
2023-03-07 23:01:15 <KipIngram   > We humans aren't terribly good at balance.
2023-03-07 23:01:40 <KipIngram   > We're like that kid that learns to do something new - LOOK MA!!!...
2023-03-07 23:02:00 <KipIngram   > "More" is one of our favorite words.