2023-04-10 04:50:21 <veltas      > Will try something when it's around next, but yeah hoping vms14's bot is a bit more secure now lol
2023-04-10 04:50:29 <veltas      > Was a little on the CVE side before
2023-04-10 13:48:34 <vms14       > how does Forth handle concurrency?
2023-04-10 13:48:51 <vms14       > or how do you handle concurrency in your forth systems
2023-04-10 13:49:02 <vms14       > or how a concurrent forth would look like
2023-04-10 13:49:04 <vms14       > xD
2023-04-10 13:50:15 <vms14       > I think about separating the code by statements, this would involve a call stack for loops and alike
2023-04-10 13:50:47 <vms14       > like evaluating one statement at once of multiple programs/interpreters
2023-04-10 13:51:11 <vms14       > for now I only have concurrency in form of threads
2023-04-10 13:51:25 <vms14       > but I'd like to end some day with some form of builtin concurrency
2023-04-10 13:54:27 <crc         > I achieve concurrency poorly. I have a couple of implementations of my underlying VM with multiple cores; they have separate address and data stacks and share the system RAM.
2023-04-10 13:55:53 <crc         > I haven't worked on using this functionality for any serious tasks yet, just small explorations
2023-04-10 13:56:35 <vms14       > the actor model seems the way to go
2023-04-10 13:59:01 <crc         > I've not really studied existing models yet. This is something I'm planning to do later this year.
2023-04-10 14:01:05 <vms14       > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17283359/are-there-concurrent-designs-where-the-actor-model-isnt-good-for
2023-04-10 14:11:01 <vms14       > http://www.usingcsp.com/cspbook.pdf
2023-04-10 14:16:49 <veltas      > vms14: There are forths with cooperative multithreading
2023-04-10 14:17:12 <veltas      > That means you use one hardware thread, and have different stacks for different 'threads' but otherwise it's a bit fake
2023-04-10 14:17:33 <veltas      > This is a good way to separate logic out, but can't do 'parallel' computation
2023-04-10 14:17:39 <vms14       > yeah I know some implememtations
2023-04-10 14:17:50 <vms14       > implementations* have tasks and stuff alike
2023-04-10 14:18:17 <vms14       > there are a lot of ways to implement concurrent systems
2023-04-10 14:18:25 <vms14       > or "provide concurrency"
2023-04-10 14:18:37 <veltas      > I don't know about parallel computation but it would be much the same thing, but you would need synchronisation words as well
2023-04-10 14:18:54 <veltas      > In cooperative you just need to avoid calling a word that yields and you're always in a 'mutex'
2023-04-10 14:19:58 <vms14       > the thing is choose a method
2023-04-10 14:20:16 <vms14       > the simplest one I see is to have some sort of main loop and events
2023-04-10 14:20:46 <vms14       > the actor model is better than that
2023-04-10 14:21:04 <vms14       > but it seems there are other ways that are even better than the actor model
2023-04-10 14:21:13 <vms14       > or at least don't have the same constraints
2023-04-10 14:21:18 <veltas      > You need to do whatever's simplest
2023-04-10 14:21:37 <vms14       > the first thing that comes to mind is to have several interpreters
2023-04-10 14:21:58 <vms14       > like the interpreter is an object and you can instantiate how many you want
2023-04-10 14:22:09 <vms14       > but from there, there's a lot of ways to choose anyways
2023-04-10 14:22:11 <veltas      > KipIngram and I have talked about this before
2023-04-10 14:22:25 <vms14       > sad I wasn't there :/
2023-04-10 14:22:29 <veltas      > You're talking about a terminal thread, which is heavier than a normal thread
2023-04-10 14:26:32 <veltas      > vms14: I recommend reading chapter 7 of the swiftforth manual, on multitasking
2023-04-10 14:26:48 <veltas      > If you want advice on implementing any of the relevant words then I am happy to help
2023-04-10 14:27:20 <veltas      > I don't know what 'model' it subscribes to but it matches the functionality I've seen in every cooperatively threaded scripting language
2023-04-10 14:31:24 <vms14       > I can't get a copy of that reference manual
2023-04-10 14:31:51 <vms14       > but still I know almost nothing about concurrency so I have a lot of research to do
2023-04-10 14:32:01 <veltas      > If you download the swiftforth evaluation copy
2023-04-10 14:32:04 <veltas      > It's free on forth.com
2023-04-10 14:32:15 <veltas      > It comes with the manuals, I'm referring to the Linux manual
2023-04-10 14:32:36 <veltas      > There's also this Brad Rodriguez article, which looks good https://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/mtasking.html
2023-04-10 14:32:40 <veltas      > Has some nitty gritty to help you
2023-04-10 14:32:58 <vms14       > ty :D
2023-04-10 14:35:07 <veltas      > Darn, looking at old IRC logs, really frustrating how many people have left in the last 3 years
2023-04-10 14:36:07 <veltas      > At least Facebook is active but it doesn't seem to have the same kinds of conversations you get in here
2023-04-10 14:36:56 <thrig       > facebook had a horrible interface years ago, and the modern web hasn't exactly improved things
2023-04-10 14:38:22 <veltas      > Facebook used to work a lot better back when it was a hacky PHP site
2023-04-10 14:39:22 <veltas      > Brings my laptop to a crawl
2023-04-10 14:40:13 <gordonjcp   > I dislike Facebook
2023-04-10 14:40:29 <gordonjcp   > but, a lot of non-techy folk I need to talk to are on it
2023-04-10 14:40:50 <veltas      > I hate Facebook as a website but I post stuff to the Forth group there because it seems to be the most active Forth community
2023-04-10 15:01:44 <veltas      > Reposting this just once more in case people missed it, I uploaded a recording of myself doing a little forth programming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEqgZp-VSgs
2023-04-10 15:01:49 <veltas      > I'll stop spamming now :P
2023-04-10 16:25:15 <unjust      > veltas: i starred your demo repository after watching that video, i don't watch youtube videos while signed in with a google account so no comment, like, or subscription - sorry.
2023-04-10 16:28:05 <thrig       > (google probably already knows that it is you)
2023-04-10 16:28:42 <unjust      > of course they do
2023-04-10 16:29:05 <veltas      > Thanks unjust
2023-04-10 16:29:57 <unjust      > what's the next video going to feature?
2023-04-10 16:30:20 <veltas      > Drama and face reveal
2023-04-10 16:30:28 <veltas      > What forth inc don't want you to know
2023-04-10 16:31:42 <thrig       > : LIZARD-PEOPLE ... ;
2023-04-10 16:33:57 <veltas      > Honestly I don't think it could hurt to have more Forth videos. I enjoy that format of "dude codes something" so I am contributing
2023-04-10 16:34:11 <veltas      > I would encourage anyone else to do the same if they have ideas / aspiration
2023-04-10 16:37:23 <unjust      > what did you use for screen capture, audio recording and then mixing/editing?
2023-04-10 16:37:47 <veltas      > simplescreenrecorder, simplescreenrecorder, nothing
2023-04-10 16:38:23 <veltas      > I can't run OBS on my laptop, the OpenGL isn't a high enough version
2023-04-10 16:39:23 <unjust      > thanks
2023-04-10 16:39:45 <veltas      > I captured that on my 2GB (maxed out slots) Core 2 Duo laptop, I was honestly not sure if it could do that
2023-04-10 16:40:20 <veltas      > But it turns out capturing mostly static text is quite easy even for an old laptop, and the resulting video compresses very well
2023-04-10 16:42:34 <unjust      > that's impressive, i guess it might get a bit sluggish though when trying to record fullscreen at resolutions above 1366x768?
2023-04-10 16:43:03 <veltas      > Not sure, my GPU was designed for 1024x768 workloads so probably
2023-04-10 16:43:18 <veltas      > Well 'GPU' is a strong term for the integrated intel graphics I've got
2023-04-10 16:46:15 <unjust      > i use a few similarly old laptops, i'm guessing you're stuck with a i915 compatible chipset
2023-04-10 16:47:24 <veltas      > I think so
2023-04-10 16:47:37 <veltas      > I can't fully explain why but I hate newer laptops
2023-04-10 16:48:36 <veltas      > Using a ThinkPad T60
2023-04-10 16:49:51 <unjust      > not a fan of EFI and the dumbed down BIOS setup interfaces of the newer laptops i've used
2023-04-10 16:50:14 <unjust      > imho, everything went downhill since trackballs got phased out