2023-06-19 04:39:36 <veltas      > Just had a bizarre thing happen at work on Windows. We use TeraTerm and it lets you save the current profile at any time, brings up a normal Save As dialog, and writes it out as an .ini
2023-06-19 04:39:58 <veltas      > And someone was asking me "tell me I'm not crazy", they were saving their ini, and then when they opened the folder it wasn't there
2023-06-19 04:40:06 <veltas      > But in the program it was there
2023-06-19 04:40:48 <veltas      > And it turns out it's because it was saving to its Program Files directory, so Windows was redirecting to another folder silently because you aren't allowed to write there
2023-06-19 04:40:59 <veltas      > It's a compatibility feature because this used to be something many programs did
2023-06-19 04:43:29 <dave0       > today i found out edge likes to automatically turn off aeroplane mode without asking me
2023-06-19 04:43:37 <dave0       > so it can report to microsoft
2023-06-19 05:01:15 <veltas      > I get why Windows does this compatibility redirect thing, and it was the right choice, but I just hate this outcome. It would be nice if the explorer dialog actually greyed out these files or something and said "this is being redirected for compatiblity reasons to this folder"
2023-06-19 05:01:21 <veltas      > Instead it's totally opaque
2023-06-19 05:01:44 <veltas      > Good luck getting a normal or even competent user to understand where those files went
2023-06-19 06:38:50 <MrMobius    > meh that's not so bad
2023-06-19 06:39:14 <MrMobius    > Linux is even more bewildering the first 6 months you use it if you've been on windows you're whole life
2023-06-19 06:40:20 <MrMobius    > all these command shell shenanigans make no sense. why can't I use this environment variable? it shows up when I check for it...
2023-06-19 06:48:54 <MrMobius    > another one of my favorites was installing Ubuntu for the very first time and the build failed since cmake was the wrong version. apparently uninstalling my OS and reinstalling an older version would have fixed it 0_0
2023-06-19 07:14:50 <unjust      > i can imagine that bewilderment is pretty common, and enough to drive most people away from using any linux distributions. just like a bad experience with a single distribution can get one thinking that all distributions must be just as bad.
2023-06-19 07:20:45 <unjust      > i think what drives people away from anything that's 'not windows' after these experiences is that there isn't (not that i'm aware of at at least) much in terms of situation-specific guides or documentation that speaks to the end-user in plain language about how to recover, how to perform am install/upgrade in a sane way without losing data, and then nothing in terms of try out these programs and this simplified desktop environment to replicate your
2023-06-19 07:21:39 <unjust      > if they exist, they certainly aren't as visible or accessible as they should be
2023-06-19 07:28:16 <drakonis    > it has improved, but linux is still the realm of dedicated people
2023-06-19 07:30:59 <unjust      > true, it doesn't have to be that way though - i guess there aren't any (or aren't enough) cash incentives to change that yet
2023-06-19 07:35:44 <drakonis    > there are
2023-06-19 07:42:18 <drakonis    > you have immutable distros that can snapshot then fast-forward or rewind the system to a safe state
2023-06-19 07:45:05 <drakonis    > its not even a niche distro thing anymore
2023-06-19 08:34:54 <MrMobius    > wait, are you saying this might be the year of the Linux desktop?
2023-06-19 09:04:28 <drakonis    > am i? god no.
2023-06-19 09:52:15 <thrig       > lot of android systems out there
2023-06-19 10:06:44 <drakonis    > unjust: i see you have derived some inspiration from me :v
2023-06-19 10:06:52 <drakonis    > https://github.com/jhswartz/ias
2023-06-19 10:07:38 <unjust      > drakonis: that was the script behind the example i put into termbin.sh for you last week )
2023-06-19 10:07:44 <drakonis    > ah, i see!
2023-06-19 10:07:48 <drakonis    > excellent
2023-06-19 10:10:52 <unjust      > what are you doing that you're interested in assembling just one or a few instructions at a time?
2023-06-19 10:12:28 <drakonis    > i'm testing small snippets of assembly for educational purposes
2023-06-19 10:15:00 <drakonis    > what i want is to observe the results of the assembly i'm executing
2023-06-19 10:20:50 <thrig       > it's almost as if a fast iteration loop can help understanding
2023-06-19 10:21:08 <drakonis    > yes it most certainly can.
2023-06-19 10:21:50 <drakonis    > learning assembly works best with a way to view it in action
2023-06-19 10:23:35 <unjust      > edit (whatever works), assemble (as), link (ld), debug (gdb), repeat
2023-06-19 10:24:13 <drakonis    > yes.
2023-06-19 10:26:02 <MrMobius    > drakonis: x86?
2023-06-19 10:26:05 <drakonis    > yes
2023-06-19 10:26:26 <MrMobius    > ah ok
2023-06-19 10:26:33 <MrMobius    > this is my thing for 6502: http://calc6502.com/ia6502/main.html
2023-06-19 10:27:32 <drakonis    > oh, that's cool.
2023-06-19 10:27:44 <unjust      > very cool
2023-06-19 10:29:40 <unjust      > MrMobius: have you encountered any 65(c?)02 variants used in PSTN (or ISDN) modems - maybe as a core buried in some chipset from rockwell or connexant?
2023-06-19 10:35:24 <drakonis    > i found a x86 assembly emulator
2023-06-19 10:35:57 <drakonis    > and someone wrote an x86-64 assembler in javascript which comes with nifty visualization tools
2023-06-19 10:36:02 <drakonis    > http://pasm.pis.to/
2023-06-19 10:36:40 <drakonis    > its just... very dang old
2023-06-19 10:36:54 <drakonis    > 11 years is so much time in javascript years
2023-06-19 10:38:07 <drakonis    > definitely functions though
2023-06-19 10:38:37 <unjust      > i don't think there's much to have suffered from bitrot for a project like that
2023-06-19 10:39:29 <drakonis    > its mainly just feature support that might be a bit limited
2023-06-19 10:40:04 <drakonis    > the todo section in the readme implies that it just works but still lacks more useful features
2023-06-19 10:40:42 <drakonis    > hmm, alternatively, i can use asmrepl?
2023-06-19 10:40:59 <drakonis    > its by one of yjit's authors
2023-06-19 10:47:31 <drakonis    > hm, it seems like someone did make something nice
2023-06-19 10:50:52 <drakonis    > https://robwhit.sh/processable/dev/ oooh this one works.
2023-06-19 10:51:49 <drakonis    > sadly its just at&t syntax but i'll live
2023-06-19 11:33:33 <MrMobius    > I have encountered 6502 variants in modems. I have a couple here I want to hook up one day.
2023-06-19 11:48:37 <thrig       > just wait until we get our Hayes on you?
2023-06-19 11:51:53 <unjust      > ++ATH0
2023-06-19 11:52:12 <unjust      > i mean +++ATH0
2023-06-19 11:54:50 <KipIngram   > Oh my - that's a blast from the past.
2023-06-19 11:54:53 <unjust      > i have a connexant cx23(something) based PSTN modem that allows me to dump arbitrary memory through an AT! command. i suspect it's got a 6502-like core, but i'd never figured out how to get to do anything useful after dumping what seemed to be the entire address space
2023-06-19 12:03:58 <MrMobius    > conexant used some fascinating 6502 stuff
2023-06-19 12:05:20 <MrMobius    > 35mhz for one compared to 14mhz which is the fastest 65C02 you can get. some of them used the X register as an 8 bit pointer into the first 256 bytes to specify an accumulator which is kind of weird. also, a 16 bit pointer for running threaded code so I think you get Forth's NEXT in one instruction
2023-06-19 12:12:09 <unjust      > https://www.ebay.com/itm/185625244395 i wonder if these are real R65F11 chips
2023-06-19 12:39:19 <MrMobius    > unjust: could be. someone posted on the 6502 forum about those and seemed to have gotten what they ordered
2023-06-19 12:39:24 <MrMobius    > dunno if it was off ebay though
2023-06-19 18:14:49 <unjust      > Zarutian_iPad: similar to the tiny ELF you linked to recently -> https://tmpout.sh/2/14.html
2023-06-19 21:59:54 <drakonis    > right now i'm considering using nasm to do assembly for now
2023-06-19 22:00:03 <drakonis    > fasmg's documentation leaves much to be desired
2023-06-19 22:00:41 <thrig       > nasm is pretty swell
2023-06-19 22:02:28 <drakonis    > although i should, perhaps, reference fasm's documentation a lot more?
2023-06-19 22:02:45 <drakonis    > not sure, really.
2023-06-19 22:05:04 <drakonis    > its a bit too prose heavy though
2023-06-19 22:07:13 <thrig       > it was the best of documenation, stormy and dark with rippling hues that caught the eye in such a way as to remind you I'm reading some Lem
2023-06-19 22:08:13 <drakonis    > ha
2023-06-19 22:08:21 <drakonis    > i meant that it is very wordy
2023-06-19 22:08:43 <thrig       > and so is Lem!
2023-06-19 22:09:59 <drakonis    > still trying to figure things out though
2023-06-19 22:25:26 <MrMobius    > +1 for nasm
2023-06-19 22:33:28 <drakonis    > perhaps it would be wiser to set aside any advanced assembler tricks for later
2023-06-19 22:33:50 <drakonis    > once i can get a working forth implementation i want to reduce the bootstrap requirements
2023-06-19 22:36:32 <drakonis    > something something yagni