2023-12-19 00:00:23 <vms14       > yeah, I just wanted to improve the ways to print "conditional" html and since I use lists to represent and generate html I just added it to the list interpolation
2023-12-19 00:27:14 <zelgomer    > i'm thinking of doing something ugly. somebody stop me
2023-12-19 00:27:39 <vms14       > zelgomer: go ahead
2023-12-19 00:27:47 <vms14       > it will be fun
2023-12-19 00:28:05 <zelgomer    > i'm thinking my target compiler will be its own nested parsing loop
2023-12-19 00:28:47 <vms14       > time to make a copy before starting i guess
2023-12-19 01:22:07 <slacko_user13052> As long as you do enough testing, I'd say go for it. If it turns out to be unreliable, you can always go for a more normal implementation.
2023-12-19 01:33:11 <slacko_user13052> @vms14 having looked at your code (and only understod the standard stuff) I would say that your main struggle will be keeping your 'forth' lean. Large/fat forth stuff doesn't look like it has any meaningful advantages over other, more common languages.
2023-12-19 01:36:03 <vms14       > well those $yes and $no are conditional elements, I did not have any better idea for now to write "conditional" html
2023-12-19 01:36:08 <thrig       > better get rocky on that treadmill
2023-12-19 01:36:33 <vms14       > that code is just a simple cgi that returns <p>no input</p> if there are no input parameters from the form
2023-12-19 01:36:49 <vms14       > or prints the title and content parameters if they exist
2023-12-19 01:37:29 <vms14       > 'parameters' returns a hash table with the input form parameters as key/values
2023-12-19 01:37:34 <slacko_user13052> stuff like instant compilation (of simple programs), interactivity, and so on are available for most widely used languages. so forth has lost some of its original selling points, on the other hand everything else is getting super fat, and forth is about as lean as ou can get.
2023-12-19 01:38:10 <vms14       > by lean you mean like performance and low memory footprint?
2023-12-19 01:38:17 <vms14       > my lang can't do that :/
2023-12-19 01:38:22 <slacko_user13052> not in this case
2023-12-19 01:38:32 <vms14       > performance is a joke, and memory footprint too
2023-12-19 01:38:38 <vms14       > ah, then you mean to be concise?
2023-12-19 01:38:43 <slacko_user13052> yes
2023-12-19 01:38:58 <slacko_user13052> and easy to emorise the whole syntax
2023-12-19 01:39:11 <slacko_user13052> *memorise
2023-12-19 01:39:18 <vms14       > that's an issue I have, I have a lot of different syntax
2023-12-19 01:39:44 <slacko_user13052> I think that will be the main issue in making this truly usefull for you
2023-12-19 01:39:47 <vms14       > @ is a word that performs interpolation in lists, and it has its own directives
2023-12-19 01:40:07 <vms14       > but I somehow need those directives, they would be names instead of symbols, but meh
2023-12-19 01:41:19 <vms14       > the interpreter has also a lot of syntax sugar and I have a word named 'format' which somehow resembles a bit the lisp's format function which also has its own syntax
2023-12-19 01:41:41 <vms14       > https://termbin.com/9nej
2023-12-19 01:41:54 <vms14       > this is the whole implementation written in perl
2023-12-19 01:42:12 <vms14       > the function interpret_atom is the syntax sugar of the interpreter
2023-12-19 01:42:21 <slacko_user13052> You wil probably have to iterate and choose what things you actually need to do and need good syntax for.
2023-12-19 01:42:38 <vms14       > there's also interpolate_list and interpolate_string
2023-12-19 01:43:06 <vms14       > interpolate_list has even more syntax than the interpreter it seems
2023-12-19 01:44:35 <vms14       > yeah, I might be able to remove a lot of directives in interpolate_list and to choose better symbols for the remaining ones
2023-12-19 01:46:02 <slacko_user13052> I'm afraid you have exceeded me via your perl. My knowledge of perl is exceedingly basic, so I can;t say anything of use about your last section of code.
2023-12-19 01:47:21 <vms14       > I wonder how much of the code actually sucks :D
2023-12-19 01:47:39 <vms14       > for some reason this implementation is much faster than the last one
2023-12-19 01:47:56 <vms14       > 0 1 1000000 range [ + ] dolist .cr
2023-12-19 01:48:22 <vms14       > this iterates a list of the first million numbers and sums them
2023-12-19 01:48:33 <slacko_user13052> =? wish I could help, but perl isn't high on my priority list atm
2023-12-19 01:48:37 <vms14       > it took 12 seconds in the last implementation and now for some reason takes 5
2023-12-19 01:49:16 <vms14       > yet performance is not my goal for now, but I wonder why
2023-12-19 01:49:30 <slacko_user13052> it could just be a js thing
2023-12-19 01:49:35 <vms14       > it's perl
2023-12-19 01:49:42 <slacko_user13052> ah, k
2023-12-19 01:49:47 <KipIngram   > Well, I've got the bluetooth keyboard fired up and am giving it a go.  No "weird events" yet, but I guess I'll give it a while.
2023-12-19 01:49:52 <vms14       > the js implementation takes like 0.5 seconds
2023-12-19 01:50:06 <slacko_user13052> 'that sounds better
2023-12-19 01:50:20 <KipIngram   > This is a Logitech K810 - I've been exceptionally pleased with it.  Enough so that I bought two of them.
2023-12-19 01:50:50 <vms14       > I wonder when was the last time I touched a mouse :/
2023-12-19 01:50:55 <vms14       > and a real keyboard
2023-12-19 01:51:00 <slacko_user13052> ?
2023-12-19 01:51:19 <slacko_user13052> you aren't phoneprogramming are you?
2023-12-19 01:51:22 <vms14       > my computers are the gpd micropc and a phone which is a copy of a blackberry
2023-12-19 01:51:31 <slacko_user13052> oh
2023-12-19 01:51:33 <vms14       > the unihertz titan pocket
2023-12-19 01:52:03 <vms14       > slacko_user13052: I've written more than 2000 lines of code with that phone xD
2023-12-19 01:52:13 <vms14       > but I'm using the gpd now
2023-12-19 01:52:51 <vms14       > the only reason I bought it was to be able to program anywhere, as the gpd fits in a pocket but I do not carry it with me always, the phone is with me 24/7
2023-12-19 01:53:16 <unjust      > what editor do you use via the phone?
2023-12-19 01:53:27 <vms14       > the day I touch a real keyboard will be a nice day
2023-12-19 01:53:34 <vms14       > unjust: emacs with evil mode
2023-12-19 01:53:39 <slacko_user13052> wow
2023-12-19 01:53:52 <unjust      > i like ed for phone programming
2023-12-19 01:53:55 <vms14       > emacs hotkeys make me crazy with the phone keyboard, but with vi mode works fine
2023-12-19 01:54:10 <vms14       > and you have the best of both worlds, which is nice
2023-12-19 01:54:29 <slacko_user13052> not how I would do it, but if it works for you, it works.
2023-12-19 01:55:04 <vms14       > I went to emacs some years ago and I have a hate relationship, but I did not find anything better
2023-12-19 01:55:09 <slacko_user13052> touchscreens don't like my fingers so I couldn;t imagine typing code on them, but hey
2023-12-19 01:55:23 <vms14       > slacko_user13052: it's a physical keyboard, a tiny one
2023-12-19 01:55:38 <vms14       > this phone is a ripoff of the blackberry, but with android
2023-12-19 01:55:41 <slacko_user13052> ah, ok, less insane ;)
2023-12-19 01:56:14 <vms14       > https://www.unihertz.com/en-es/products/titan-pocket
2023-12-19 01:56:34 <vms14       > I'm quite happy with it, I sometimes wonder what if I buy the bigger one
2023-12-19 01:57:03 <vms14       > https://www.unihertz.com/en-es/products/titan
2023-12-19 01:57:21 <vms14       > it's a bit bigger, it took me a while to get used to the keyboard of the titan pocket
2023-12-19 02:01:39 <vms14       > it sucks for games and everything else, but I have fun typing code in it
2023-12-19 02:02:17 <slacko_user13052> I could see that.
2023-12-19 02:02:56 <slacko_user13052> Some people purportedly code on touchscreen keybords, which I find somewhat implausible.
2023-12-19 02:03:29 <vms14       > crc prefers to use a phone to develop software than a computer, which amused me
2023-12-19 02:03:36 <vms14       > but he uses a real keyboard
2023-12-19 02:04:20 <vms14       > actually some stuff is quite convenient, like the wifi and data
2023-12-19 02:04:44 <slacko_user13052> yeah, I can deal with a bad mouse and whatnot. A bad keyboard is not really livable
2023-12-19 02:05:49 <unjust      > slacko_user13052: i find the lack of visual area more of a downside than how bad of a keyboard the average phone touchscreen makes
2023-12-19 02:05:55 <crc         > phone + physical keyboard is pretty useful; my son does programming on his phone using  only a software keyboard
2023-12-19 02:06:17 <thrig       > kids these days!
2023-12-19 02:06:23 <slacko_user13052> heh
2023-12-19 02:06:44 <unjust      > i've found using a line editor rather than a visual editor makes text editing on a phone more sane
2023-12-19 02:07:00 <slacko_user13052> I could see that
2023-12-19 02:08:38 <crc         > unjust: I agree with that. Most of my coding now is in blocks, and I use a line editor for this
2023-12-19 02:10:25 <vms14       > yeah sometimes might be an issue to have such limited space
2023-12-19 02:10:34 <vms14       > https://i.imgur.com/DbpG14m.png
2023-12-19 02:10:40 <vms14       > this is how it looks in my phone
2023-12-19 02:11:13 <slacko_user13052> >.> low screens-space means I have to go back to splitting my giant equations into multipe lines.
2023-12-19 02:11:24 <slacko_user13052> don't want
2023-12-19 02:11:33 <vms14       > it encourages factoring, which is good
2023-12-19 02:11:34 <vms14       > :D
2023-12-19 02:11:39 <slacko_user13052> heh
2023-12-19 02:11:58 <vms14       > which reminds me in my lang factoring is expensive :/
2023-12-19 02:12:11 <vms14       > but performance is not an issue for now
2023-12-19 02:12:27 <unjust      > someone here was encouraging lines of 40 characters max, with another 40 reserved for comments
2023-12-19 02:12:46 <unjust      > iiuc at least. seems like an interesting idea
2023-12-19 02:13:08 <slacko_user13052> lol, even chuck goes up to ~70 when needed
2023-12-19 02:13:38 <crc         > unjust: I've done something similar to that in the past
2023-12-19 02:14:07 <unjust      > crc: how did it pan out?
2023-12-19 02:15:30 <crc         > I didn't end up sticking with it. I prefer to alternate between blocks of comments and code, so for files, I made up a format for that. For blocks, I can just alternate or use a full line comment or two if I feel it necessary
2023-12-19 02:17:34 <vms14       > which reminds me I have to write documentation
2023-12-19 02:18:38 <vms14       > crc do you use a nice irc client in android?
2023-12-19 02:19:15 <vms14       > I have andchat, which is not even in the play store anymore and seems to be discontinued, but it seems to disfail sometimes
2023-12-19 02:19:24 <vms14       > fail*
2023-12-19 02:20:00 <crc         > I use irccloud & irssi
2023-12-19 02:20:28 <vms14       > hmm
2023-12-19 02:20:49 <vms14       > then I guess I'll just use emacs erc, like I do with the computer
2023-12-19 02:21:33 <crc         > irccloud has their own client, which is fine, but I live in the terminal most of the time
2023-12-19 02:23:07 <vms14       > do you have any kind of way to sync your computer to the phone?
2023-12-19 02:23:24 <vms14       > I guess I'll just use sockets, for now I use a web server xd
2023-12-19 02:24:14 <vms14       > I did try with cvs, it worked quite fine, the server was on the phone and I just had to share wifi to the computer, no matter if there's internet connection
2023-12-19 02:24:16 <crc         > I have a set of shell scripts using scp & rsync to push/pull data between the phone and my dev. server
2023-12-19 02:24:22 <vms14       > but I guess a socket might just work fine
2023-12-19 02:25:35 <crc         > (Mostly this is just pushing my block set between systems)
2023-12-19 02:35:36 <slacko_user13052> @KipIngram Re:k810 I can deal with thinkpad stile chiklets, but the apple style isn't something I want more exposure to. That said, logitch is supposed to be the leader in wireless peripherals, so it should be good at that stuff.
2023-12-19 02:36:14 <slacko_user13052> *style
2023-12-19 02:41:18 <KipIngram   > Yeah, at the time I was using a work-issue Mac for most of my computing.
2023-12-19 02:41:25 <KipIngram   > That was why I chose that one.
2023-12-19 02:42:11 <KipIngram   > I'm not really planning to use it long term here - this is really just to help diagnose the keyboard issues I've been having.  Still no issues with this keyboard - looking more and more like a keyboard age issue.
2023-12-19 02:42:26 <KipIngram   > Or I suppose I might just need to clean it.
2023-12-19 02:44:01 <slacko_user13052> hm... I don;t recall any of this wierdness happening in the ps2 era.
2023-12-19 02:45:17 <slacko_user13052> but, software has gotten massively more complex as well, so I don't know.
2023-12-19 02:51:08 <unjust      > much less to go wrong with ps/2 vs usb comms
2023-12-19 02:55:38 <KipIngram   > Yeah, the symptoms I'm seeing I have trouble even imagining a failure mode for.  It's like it *anticipates* me hitting the shift key.
2023-12-19 02:56:21 <KipIngram   > I.e., shifts early.
2023-12-19 02:56:32 <KipIngram   > Late too, but that's easier for me to understand.
2023-12-19 03:05:54 <slacko_user13052> USB keyboards have generally had problems with nkro ( n key roll over ) - that is, multiple keystrokes simultaneously being registered correctly. I have heard a lot of complaints about the complexity of usb=anything, so a software+hardware idiocy is suspect.
2023-12-19 03:08:57 <slacko_user13052> According to a lot of the linux dirver gurus, many of the devices they need to work with don't even follow their own specs; or indeed behave predictably in any fashion.
2023-12-19 14:59:50 <vms14       >  https://termbin.com/gqyfr
2023-12-19 14:59:57 <vms14       > some documentation for my dirty lang
2023-12-19 15:00:07 <vms14       > https://termbin.com/yf19
2023-12-19 15:00:13 <vms14       > the lang itself as a perl script
2023-12-19 15:00:34 <vms14       > I use rlwrap with it, but it can also load files from the command line
2023-12-19 15:00:53 <vms14       > perl this.file some.script
2023-12-19 15:01:12 <vms14       > or chmod +x this.file and ./this.file files...
2023-12-19 16:39:59 <olle        > Nice /r/forth post today
2023-12-19 16:40:02 <olle        > "Why not Forth?"
2023-12-19 16:45:03 <olle        > https://old.reddit.com/r/Forth/comments/18loobl/why_not_forth/
2023-12-19 17:52:47 <DKordic     > Lulz #forth is invite-only.
2023-12-19 17:57:41 <GeDaMo      > It's probably meant to redirect to here
2023-12-19 18:17:59 <crc         > #forth should redirect here on most clients
2023-12-19 18:19:22 <thrig       > someone could make an official project called forth and then take over that channel...
2023-12-19 18:25:07 <crc         > I have control of it. It wasn't clear on how namespacing would work on libera when it started, so I set it to redirect here (following previous convention regarding offical vs unofficial from the freenode days)
2023-12-19 18:29:23 <KipIngram   > I think that's completely suitable - out of all of us I think crc  has the most well-developed body of work.  More than enough to justify controlling #forth in my opinion.
2023-12-19 18:53:03 <KipIngram   > Well-developed plus well-documented.
2023-12-19 19:59:40 <KipIngram   > My second oldest daughter just graduated from her PhD program at Texas A&M Friday.  :-)  Very proud of her.
2023-12-19 20:00:13 <KipIngram   > Third generation in a row, though my dad and I went to UT Austin rather than A&M.
2023-12-19 20:00:45 <KipIngram   > And she's cooking her contribution to generation #4 right now - due in March.
2023-12-19 20:02:37 <zelgomer    > disgusting
2023-12-19 20:04:01 <zelgomer    > so anyway, i found source for a metacompiler written by brad rodriguez back in the 90s. turns out he handles target numeric literals the same way i was thinking: namely, target compilation gets its own nested parse loop. i don't feel so bad about this anymore