2024-12-07 00:04:41 <xentrac     > lilo_booter: if you strace gforth that will tell you what system calls create-file is trying and what their results are
2024-12-07 00:06:33 <xentrac     > veltas: silently redirecting paths is pretty common in Docker, Podman, Snap, and I think Flatpak, though i haven't used it
2024-12-07 00:13:05 <xentrac     > I had an Ubuntu laptop which had a circular dependency in its startup units somehow.  Systemd broke the circular dependency at random, with the result that every time I booted, I had a 50% chance of not having working networking.  Until I brought up the network unit manually
2024-12-07 00:13:37 <thrig       > graphs are teh hard?
2024-12-07 00:13:45 <xentrac     > dumb bugs like that could happen with any new init system, though
2024-12-07 00:15:55 <xentrac     > systemd and pulseaudio both seem to be fairly buggy, so for a while every time something broke on my laptop I said "I've been Lennarted again!"
2024-12-07 00:16:03 <xentrac     > which is probably a bit unfair
2024-12-07 00:16:11 <xentrac     > still, I'm glad I'm using pipewire now
2024-12-07 00:16:56 <xentrac     > systemd doesn't seem to be designed with simplicity and composability as top-line considerations the way Unix software normally is
2024-12-07 00:18:40 <thrig       > systemd was desigened to drive support contracts to redhat
2024-12-07 00:21:00 <xentrac     > the Ubuntu, Debian, and Arch people don't believe that, or they wouldn't have adopted systemd
2024-12-07 00:21:44 <xentrac     > I mean I understand that this is a risk with the support-selling business model, but I don't think it actually happened in this case
2024-12-07 00:24:11 <thrig       > ubuntu and others lacked the competence to run systemd, hence some hilarious failures when adopting it, and other folks forked away from systemd
2024-12-07 00:24:28 <thrig       > (redhat also lacked the competence to run systemd, given some of the security whoopsies)
2024-12-07 00:26:08 <xentrac     > still, they could have gone with Upstart or runit or just continued with sysvinit or whatever
2024-12-07 00:26:12 <xentrac     > they decided not to
2024-12-07 00:26:38 <thrig       > other theys forked away from systemd
2024-12-07 00:32:31 <xentrac     > there doesn't seem to be a mass exodus from Debian to Devuan, though
2024-12-07 00:33:16 <thrig       > nor from the boiling shit-pond that is windows
2024-12-07 01:48:56 <xentrac     > dunno, most people's personal computers run Linux now, and most of the rest run iOS
2024-12-07 01:49:06 <xentrac     > admittedly Linux without systemd
2024-12-07 01:49:35 <xentrac     > and nearly all servers run Linux.  even in Azure
2024-12-07 02:05:30 <thrig       > and a lot of people marched happily off to world war 1; just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good
2024-12-07 02:09:00 <xentrac     > mostly they did that because they believed something terrible would happen (to themselves or their country) if they didn't.  I don't think such incentives are at play here; if Debian starts working badly, Debian users will look for alternatives and probably most will switch to Devuan
2024-12-07 03:46:48 <KipIngram   > Yeah - WW1 really sucked - it seemed like such a waste.  At least from the Allie's perspective WWII was NECESSARY.  But it was hard to tell what the point of WW1 was.
2024-12-07 03:47:26 <KipIngram   > s/Allie's/Allies'/
2024-12-07 10:58:55 <lilo_booter > xentrac: actually, i tried strace before i posted and was puzzled that it didn't work - i saw a bunch of stuff happening before the bootmessage, but nothing after :) - i now realise that this was another side effect of snap with gforth itself being ran as a spawned process - i should have added --follow-forks
2024-12-07 12:07:59 <TactfulCitrus> Hi everyone!
2024-12-07 12:09:44 <TactfulCitrus> New to Forth and general question. What is the debugging experience like for more experienced Forth devs? Probably one of the most challenging aspects for me at the moment is debugging. Is this just generally quite difficult on Forth or does it not really become an issue later down the line?
2024-12-07 12:31:04 <veltas      > TactfulCitrus: Most people here won't claim Forth is ideal for general programming.  Debugging is not too bad in Forth given it is inherently interactive
2024-12-07 12:31:24 <veltas      > There's good words like .S available most places, and you can step through things executing stuff at the interpreter and try and figure out where things go wrong
2024-12-07 12:31:45 <veltas      > It's good to avoid certain kinds of debugging in first place by writing programs incrementally and trying pieces as you go
2024-12-07 12:31:57 <veltas      > Such as writing them interactively in a Forth environment
2024-12-07 12:32:27 <veltas      > And testing your assumptions
2024-12-07 12:33:08 <veltas      > Some Forths have traditional debugging features like stepping through code, I've not tried this and I don't think it's what people tend to do
2024-12-07 12:40:07 <TactfulCitrus> Thanks for the advice! What if I have a loop that fails on the 1000th iteration for example? What would be the best method there?
2024-12-07 13:00:25 <lilo_booter > depends on what is being done i guess - generally, i tend toward using at least one cr in each iteration of the loop preceding any .s or other diagnostics i might need to add so that i can easily identify each iteration
2024-12-07 13:26:21 <veltas      > I would do e.g.  I 1000 = IF .S THEN  or  QUIT there if you're tracking stuff in variables
2024-12-07 13:26:52 <veltas      > Or ??? in gforth opens an interpreter there
2024-12-07 14:10:54 <KipIngram   > Does that interpreter run serially with the code it's launched from, or does the parent code execution continue in parallel?
2024-12-07 14:10:54 <KipIngram   > I just tried this:
2024-12-07 14:11:04 <KipIngram   > and when I ran it it printed before after immediately.
2024-12-07 14:11:19 <KipIngram   > It was hard to tell if I had a new prompt or a continuation of the prior one.
2024-12-07 14:11:47 <KipIngram   > I guess I could put a delay after the ???.
2024-12-07 14:11:58 <KipIngram   > Then it would be pretty clear.
2024-12-07 16:08:56 <lilo_booter > : test ." before " ??? ." after" ;  ok
2024-12-07 16:08:57 <lilo_booter > test before
2024-12-07 16:08:59 <lilo_booter > dbg>
2024-12-07 16:09:47 <lilo_booter > with gforth 0.7.9 - on 0.7.3 it does nothing
2024-12-07 16:14:53 <lilo_booter > dunno how you leave debug though - bye exits process, quit exits dbg and doesn't continue ... not found a way so that after is shown... https://gforth.org/manual/Debugging.html
2024-12-07 17:03:27 <MrMobius    > TactfulCitrus: swap gymnastics can be a source of bugs so you can work on a word interactively until it works then paste it into the source
2024-12-07 17:35:47 <xentrac     > KipIngram: in most cases the point of WWI was to not look weak
2024-12-07 17:35:59 <xentrac     > or dishonor alliances
2024-12-07 17:37:12 <xentrac     > I've done a fair bit of "work on a word interactively until it works" and also .-logging
2024-12-07 17:37:30 <xentrac     > and I did try F83's single-stepping feature but I haven't really used it seriously
2024-12-07 18:39:01 <KipIngram   > xentrac: Yeah, that sounds about right.  And at least part of the problem was the network of treaty obligations that were in place, but whether that was more than just "public justification" is hard to say.
2024-12-07 18:41:09 <KipIngram   > I just discovered yesterday that the first Star Trek movie was released in an incomplete state, because of promises made to theater chains.  I remember not being terribly impressed with it.  But now a director's cut exists which supposedly fixes those things - I think I'll watch it tonight and find out if it's an improvement.
2024-12-07 18:41:49 <thrig       > that's a khan-do spirit
2024-12-07 18:42:01 <KipIngram   > My reaction to it at the time was that it was great to see Trek on screen again, and the visuals were fantastic compared to the show, but as far as the story went it was fairly "meh."
2024-12-07 18:42:15 <KipIngram   > :-)  Unfortunately no Khan in this one.
2024-12-07 18:43:13 <KipIngram   > After that disappointment, I later went to see The Wrath of Khan and was just totally blown away.
2024-12-07 18:43:26 <KipIngram   > And it's STILL a great movie, even after all this time.
2024-12-07 18:45:32 <thrig       > had to go up against blade runner for "best dramatic presentation"
2024-12-07 18:51:33 <KipIngram   > Well, Blade Runner actually is an even better movie.  I learned recently it didn't initially do well at the box office, though.  Its reputation grew later.
2024-12-07 18:51:58 <KipIngram   > Wrath of Khan is fun - Blade Runner is DEEP.
2024-12-07 18:58:39 <lilo_booter > evn numbered trek movies were great - it was the uneven ones which wobbled a little
2024-12-07 18:59:59 <lilo_booter > tos season 1 and 2 still remains the pinacle of the show, despite some absolutely superb later efforts
2024-12-07 19:17:51 <MrMobius    > ya the Wrath of Khan is the first one that counts
2024-12-07 20:24:29 <KipIngram   > That's how I've felt too, though now that I know there were problems with the first one's production and release I'm willing to give it another go.
2024-12-07 20:35:33 <xentrac     > I haven't seen either.  I'm not sure if I've seen any of the Star Trek movies
2024-12-07 20:35:51 <xentrac     > I think I saw the one where they transported whales and looked for nuclear wessels.
2024-12-07 20:36:55 <GeDaMo      > That's 4
2024-12-07 20:37:17 <xentrac     > I did see Blade Runner
2024-12-07 20:44:23 <KipIngram   > You really ought to check out The Wrath of Khan.  But before that you should see the original series episode "Space Seed," which sets up the Khan character.
2024-12-07 20:45:37 <GeDaMo      > The first Star Trek movie was inspired by an episode too, The Changling, I think
2024-12-07 20:46:08 <KipIngram   > It was similar, but it wasn't the same entity.
2024-12-07 20:46:29 <KipIngram   > Same general type of back-story, though.
2024-12-07 20:47:24 <KipIngram   > Trek was never shy about grabbing stories that had already been told.
2024-12-07 20:49:53 <KipIngram   > I'm in the rather large camp of people that think The City on the Edge of Forever was the best Trek episode ever made.
2024-12-07 20:52:07 <GeDaMo      > The animated series had an episode there, the only one that sticks in my memory :P
2024-12-07 21:02:32 <KipIngram   > Yeah, I saw that.  Something to do with Spock as a boy, right?
2024-12-07 21:02:47 <KipIngram   > The TOS episode set there is an absolute classic.
2024-12-07 21:03:24 <GeDaMo      > Yeah
2024-12-07 21:03:36 <KipIngram   > The screenplay was originally written by Harlan Ellison, but he didn't fully adhere to Roddenberry's utopian world vision well enough, so it got changed up a fair bit before airing.
2024-12-07 21:04:07 <KipIngram   > Up in my library I have a book with all the different script versions, including Ellison's original, signed by Ellison.
2024-12-07 21:04:57 <KipIngram   > He wrote in a crew member that ws a drug addict, and that was just a no-go for Roddenberry.  We'd "outgrown" all such failings in his mind.
2024-12-07 21:05:57 <KipIngram   > You know, because fujndamental human nature can change like that in mere centuries.  ;-)
2024-12-07 21:07:39 <KipIngram   > So they replaced that part with a medical accident, and switched it from a  no-name crew member from down below to one of the major characters.
2024-12-07 21:08:23 <KipIngram   > Folklore is that Ellison didn't care for the final result too much, but the audience did.
2024-12-07 21:28:48 <xentrac     > I haven't seen very many movies
2024-12-07 21:33:15 <zelgomer    > well don't waste your time with that junk. watch something good.
2024-12-07 21:36:18 <xentrac     > here's what I've watched recently:
2024-12-07 21:37:05 <xentrac     > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqB-2auZZ6U #Blondihacks #video on #manufacturing a tool sharpener (part 3) mostly lathework on laser-cut steel and drilling in a mill with a DRO.  She’s mostly working on a table in this part, with a couple of four-bar linkages permitting two degrees of freedom of translation with no rotation.  Demonstrates round-head screws for using threaded holes as references, an
2024-12-07 21:37:11 <xentrac     > improvised hose-clamp-driven collet, etc. #machining
2024-12-07 21:37:15 <xentrac     > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AO5zbMbEbI #video from three days ago about #Anduril’s Barracuda cruise missile #weaponry #drones.  #Palmer-Luckey describes #China as an “expansionist dictatorship” and  claims that Anduril’s autonomous drones in #Ukraine have been crucial to destroying Russian hardware.  He pronounces it ['ænd ɚ ,ɪl].  “I don't think the United States needs to be the world
2024-12-07 21:37:21 <xentrac     > police.  We need to be the world gun store.  (...) Ukraine has really exposed this weakness in the United States' foreign policy strategy, where we *say* we support all of these people, but they look and say, ‘They can’t even manufacture the basics, like artillery shells or, you know, small missiles.’”  They just raised money on a US$14 billion valuation to build “Arsenal One, a five million
2024-12-07 21:37:27 <xentrac     > square foot factory that we’re building”.  Refuses to comment on possible deployments in Israel, but says, “We have a *very* strong relationship with #Taiwan,” and says Anduril was recently sanctioned by the CPC.
2024-12-07 21:37:33 <xentrac     > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCn3tnhnyo #video by #survivalists on the #USA election #politics and potential civil unrest if there is debate over who really won the election.  Just talking-head filler of some dumbfuck talking to a camera.
2024-12-07 21:38:16 <xentrac     > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJceuj30-Z8 #video on #exercise, #Summerfunfitness explaining how to work up to being able to do a pullup by doing negative pullups, and doing a pullup every time she went in and out of her bedroom.  She does six reps for three sets, making the reps more difficult rather than doing more reps, but says it’s because she doesn’t enjoy doing high reps of pullups.
2024-12-07 21:38:41 <xentrac     > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84KP_qPIgIw #video on #China’s eight most promising reusable #space rocket companies: #LandSpace (whose #ZhuQue-3 is powered by TQ-12As), iSpace (whose Hyperbola-3 is powered by Jiaodian-2s), Galactic Energy (whose Pallas-1 is powered by Cangqiong-50s), CAS Space (whose Lijian-2 is powered by YF-102s), #Space-Pioneer (whose Tianlong-3 is powered by Tianhuo-12), Orienspace
2024-12-07 21:38:47 <xentrac     > (whose Gravity-2 is powered by Yuanli-85s), Deep Blue Aerospace (whose Nebula-1 is powered by Leiting-1Rs), and SAST (whose engine is called Longyuan).  SAST (the Shanghai Academy of Space Technology), LandSpace, and iSpace are using methalox, while the others are kerolox.  Seven of these (excluding Deep Blue Aerospace) already have regular launch income from disposable rockets, mostly solid-fueled.  Also
2024-12-07 21:38:53 <xentrac     > Long March 10 (which I think is made by the government) is going to reusable boosters and is going to be trying to catch them in a sort of crisscross of movable tethers.  China plans to launch two Starlink-like megaconstellations called #Qianfan (by Shanghai Spacecom, 15000 satellites) and #Xingwang (by China SatNet, 13000 satellites).
2024-12-07 21:39:07 <xentrac     > the main theme here is factual, falsifiable information that can't be adequately conveyed by text
2024-12-07 21:39:34 <veltas      > lilo_booter: Maybe  LOCATE ???  will help
2024-12-07 21:39:48 <veltas      > A lot of my pro helpful advice for gforth is 'read the source lol'
2024-12-07 21:40:40 <lilo_booter > :) - yeah - docs rarely do it seems :)
2024-12-07 21:40:42 <xentrac     > like, you can describe in a book how to use a DRO to drill holes in precise locations using a milling machine, or how two four-bar linkages in series can permit two degrees of translational freedom with no rotation, but the video is just qualitatively a higher quality of information
2024-12-07 21:41:52 <xentrac     > similarly when you want to see a new cruise missile, understand a calisthenics exercise, or watch a prototype reusable rocket making its first successful vertical-landing test
2024-12-07 21:43:10 <xentrac     > Forth is designed as a purely textual medium, so video isn't helpful.  And Star Trek isn't factual or falsifiable, it's art.
2024-12-07 21:45:03 <xentrac     > I've found art to be extremely inspirational, which is fundamental to daring to attempt things that may not be possible.  But I'm not really a subscriber to Roddenberry's implicitly totalitarian visions of utopia, so I don't find them inspirational.
2024-12-07 21:47:59 <KipIngram   > We don't really manufacture much of anything anymore (at least compared to the way we used to), but it may be on its way back as China implodes demographically.  But yeah - I agree with you.  We need to be able to do all those things ourselves, just in case.
2024-12-07 21:48:10 <veltas      > I just watched Veritasium's video about Strandbeests and I have to say that's cool and very forthy tech, and is certainly a kind of art
2024-12-07 21:48:18 <KipIngram   > I watch a lot more "informative stuff" than I do movies and TV as well.
2024-12-07 21:48:25 <veltas      > KipIngram I recommend it to you if you don't know what that is
2024-12-07 21:48:41 <KipIngram   > I don't, though I do know who Veritasium is - he's excellent.
2024-12-07 21:48:51 <KipIngram   > He's got a particular great video on game theory.
2024-12-07 21:49:26 <lilo_booter > the strandbeests stuff is fantastic - there are some 3d prints available which i haven't got round to yet which look kinda fun
2024-12-07 21:49:29 <veltas      > I'm not incredibly keen but I have found it's a good middleground for watching something interesting and sciency/techy with my wife
2024-12-07 21:49:40 <veltas      > Veritasium I mean
2024-12-07 21:49:50 <KipIngram   > I found that video; I'll watch it shortly.
2024-12-07 21:50:53 <veltas      > It's definitely very Forthy tech
2024-12-07 21:50:57 <veltas      > Neither can I, I just saw a handful that I didn't like back when he started being popular
2024-12-07 21:51:05 <KipIngram   > If you're interested in "less technical" but still "fun and informative," you might check out Thoughty2.
2024-12-07 21:51:19 <KipIngram   > That dude is just hard not to like.
2024-12-07 21:51:48 <veltas      > The YouTuber who I enjoy the most who does these sort of informational graphics-heavy videos is 3Blue1Brown
2024-12-07 21:51:59 <KipIngram   > Oh, he is excellent too.
2024-12-07 21:52:08 <KipIngram   > Mathologer is good.
2024-12-07 21:52:11 <amby        > my lasting impression of veritasium is he poses a vague question with multiple interpretations and then in a subsequent video goes "aha you're all wrong im so clever"
2024-12-07 21:52:22 <amby        > 3b1b is excellent though
2024-12-07 21:52:32 <veltas      > Yeah veritasium has some weird personality quirks
2024-12-07 21:52:49 <veltas      > But the content is good and more broadly watchable than 3b1b
2024-12-07 21:52:59 <veltas      > So I can watch with my wife or generally more people
2024-12-07 21:53:26 <KipIngram   > Veritasium made one video about how energy  moves through an electrical circuit (spoiler: not inside the wires).  That one precipitated a LOT of controversy and discussion, but I think all sides were getting tangled up in definitions.
2024-12-07 21:53:44 <veltas      > I find TV physicists etc really bad, veritasium is much better than that at least
2024-12-07 21:53:55 <KipIngram   > The fields around the wires actually carry the energy - the wires "guide it."
2024-12-07 21:54:14 <amby        > the light second long wire loop one yeah
2024-12-07 21:54:16 <veltas      > The good thing about YouTube is that although there's some gaming, you do get a lot of good content in the 'market' of interesting videos
2024-12-07 21:54:27 <veltas      > gaming of the algorithm I mean
2024-12-07 21:54:31 <amby        > where like yeah sure it's an RC network
2024-12-07 21:54:42 <veltas      > Someone did an interesting video disproving that
2024-12-07 21:54:44 <amby        > but the full current of the battery doesnt arrive until the field propagates all the way round
2024-12-07 21:55:16 <veltas      > Where they did an empirical experiment round a field or something and showed the initial instant blip, and then the surge later after the round trip
2024-12-07 21:55:29 <amby        > bobbybroccoli is good too
2024-12-07 21:55:42 <amby        > although he does more science-related controversies than science itself
2024-12-07 21:55:45 <KipIngram   > Well, it really depends on exactly how you set your circuit up.  If your switch is here and your light bulb is a light year away, then the bulb won't light up for a long time.  But if your bulb is also here (i.e., only one of the power rails is long), the the bulb will light up right away.
2024-12-07 21:55:50 <KipIngram   > "right away"
2024-12-07 21:55:59 <amby        > "light up"
2024-12-07 21:56:06 <amby        > some current will arrive but not a lot
2024-12-07 21:56:12 <KipIngram   > Because you can start moving current at this end before current's moving at the other end.
2024-12-07 21:56:14 <amby        > well
2024-12-07 21:56:24 <amby        > if one of your power rails is short it'll light up
2024-12-07 21:56:34 <KipIngram   > Right, that's what I meant.
2024-12-07 21:56:35 <amby        > if both are a light second long it'll take a second for the full current to arrive
2024-12-07 21:56:39 <KipIngram   > Yes.
2024-12-07 21:57:08 <KipIngram   > And from a circuit perspective, it just takes time to charge up the distributed capacitance of the transmission line.
2024-12-07 21:57:47 <veltas      > Anyway, strandbeests, very cool and forthy
2024-12-07 21:57:58 <veltas      > Recommend
2024-12-07 21:58:00 <KipIngram   > Oh yeah - I'm supposed to be watching that.  :-)
2024-12-07 22:02:14 <KipIngram   > Oh, cool - the guy used a genetic algorithm to design his leg motions.  I used those in my PhD dissertation.
2024-12-07 22:02:22 <KipIngram   > They were fairly new then (I'm old...)
2024-12-07 22:02:56 <KipIngram   > It's actually pretty startling how well they can work.
2024-12-07 22:04:31 <KipIngram   > My work was on shaping the stationary stator windings of a coaxial accelerator (a "coilgun") to get a smooth acceleration profile instead of the jagged one you get with simple rectangular cross-section coils.
2024-12-07 22:12:56 <KipIngram   > Wow, I've gotten pretty good at zipping through sponsor segments.
2024-12-07 22:13:57 <KipIngram   > I found uBlock Origin several years ago, which just put an end to the more overt commercials in my YouTube experience.  Now when I watch something with my wife on her iPad I find them extra annoying.
2024-12-07 22:17:54 <KipIngram   > I can't help thinking what just a small amount of electronics could add to these things.  Just a simple ultra-low power processor and some little sensors and actuators.
2024-12-07 22:21:21 <KipIngram   > Heh.  Pneumatic logic.
2024-12-07 22:23:16 <KipIngram   > I actually think that analogy is one of the best arguments against the idea that computers will ever be conscious.  Anything you can do in a computer chip you COULD do with a vast network of pipes and valves and pumps.  But most people wouldn't look at that and ever think it could be conscious.  Because they UNDERSTAND the nature of the low-level activities.  But hide it all away in a tiny little
2024-12-07 22:23:19 <KipIngram   > flake of silicon, and they suddenly thing it can work magic.
2024-12-07 22:23:27 <KipIngram   > s/thing/think/
2024-12-07 22:23:46 <xentrac     > I didn't know Veritasium had made a Strandbeest video
2024-12-07 22:24:25 <KipIngram   > It's not that different from old superstitions that thought thunderstorms and so on had to be actions of angry gods.  We impute such things to stuff we don't understand.
2024-12-07 22:25:23 <xentrac     > KipIngram: inductive coupling can get some current flowing on the other power rail very quickly
2024-12-07 22:25:35 <KipIngram   > Yes.
2024-12-07 22:25:54 <xentrac     > I mean, capacitive and/or inductive coupling
2024-12-07 22:26:38 <KipIngram   > Yeah, totally agree.  It all makes beautiful sense when you look at it right.  And of course you can model it as a long chain of capacitors and inductors, and it becomes painfully obvious what's going on when you simulate that.
2024-12-07 22:26:42 <xentrac     > like, up to half of the steady-state current
2024-12-07 22:27:20 <KipIngram   > And if you put the right size resistor on the far end, the "step" just runs down the line and that's that.  Wrong resistor, and you get something reflected back.\
2024-12-07 22:28:18 <KipIngram   > If the far end is open, you get a negated current reflected back; if it's shorted you get a negated voltage.
2024-12-07 22:28:40 <xentrac     > right
2024-12-07 22:29:03 <KipIngram   > It's really fascinating stuff, and them EM wave theory is sort of just the same thing only in 3D.
2024-12-07 22:29:23 <xentrac     > what's really interesting is when people build microwave circuitry this way, with just transmission lines of different widths on a controlled-permittivity substrate
2024-12-07 22:29:26 <KipIngram   > A mirror is the short at the end of the air trnsmission line.
2024-12-07 22:29:39 <xentrac     > filters and stuff
2024-12-07 22:29:43 <xentrac     > but I don't really understand it
2024-12-07 22:30:58 <KipIngram   > I understand the core ideas, but yeah, filter design is a really complicated arena.  I'm no expert.
2024-12-07 22:31:46 <KipIngram   > veltas: I see what you mean about these things being Forthy.
2024-12-07 22:32:29 <KipIngram   > "Sand creeps into everything."  Germs - now he needs an immune system.
2024-12-07 22:37:06 <KipIngram   > Why does he do it?  Well, maybe the environment drew the idea to his mind in the first place, but clearly he does it because he just gets a kick out of it, and that's actually the best reason for doing anything.  He's HAVING FUN - one of the things life is all about.
2024-12-07 22:37:49 <KipIngram   > That was a great video.  :-)
2024-12-07 22:40:46 <veltas      > Yes and the veritasium quirk of this video was his assumption that the creator is doing this because he wants an earthly legacy, but I think there is more to it than that
2024-12-07 22:41:23 <veltas      > He makes some awkward remark about how we're afraid of dying with nothing left for people to remember we were there
2024-12-07 22:41:25 <KipIngram   > I agree.
2024-12-07 22:41:36 <veltas      > But it doesn't spoil the video or stop me appreciating it
2024-12-07 22:41:48 <veltas      > He's arguably getting less quirky :P
2024-12-07 22:42:02 <KipIngram   > Well, I think that happens to most endeavors that grow.
2024-12-07 22:42:26 <KipIngram   > I figure even Facebook was probably "customer oriented" in the beginning.  It had to be to "take off."
2024-12-07 22:42:27 <veltas      > I thought the video was excellent, and the machine is excellent too.  I hope he finishes giving it a brain made from pipes and bottles
2024-12-07 22:42:50 <veltas      > Or machines rather, as there are many
2024-12-07 22:42:56 <KipIngram   > Did the video say what the fellow's background was?  I may have just neglected to register it.
2024-12-07 22:43:20 <veltas      > I'm assuming he is a son of adam, like the rest of us :P
2024-12-07 22:43:37 <KipIngram   > Gah.  His PROFESSION.  :-)
2024-12-07 22:44:05 <veltas      > Probably born kicking and screaming, and at some point apparently learned some cool stuff about genetic algorithms and is clearly a creative and intelligent problem solver
2024-12-07 22:44:15 <KipIngram   > I ask because all of the "basic ideas" he's used are things I'm at least familiar with, but if he had to figure most of those things out from scratch that's pretty impressive.
2024-12-07 22:44:29 <veltas      > He seems like a very smart bloke
2024-12-07 22:44:44 <KipIngram   > And quite likable.  Like he'd be fun to hang out with.
2024-12-07 22:44:58 <veltas      > Yeah he seems like a person with a nice heart
2024-12-07 22:45:35 <veltas      > More likeable than Noonien Soong
2024-12-07 22:51:12 <lilo_booter > definitely a nice chap - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Jansen - studied physics at uni, left without a degree - seems to be categorised as artist, but engineer would equally apply
2024-12-07 23:01:09 <Zarutian_iPad> split the difference and call him an artisan?
2024-12-07 23:05:59 <thrig       > well you could
2024-12-07 23:14:34 <veltas      > One of my unfinished blogpost ideas was to post just a big old list of all my tech youtube subscriptions unedited
2024-12-07 23:15:49 <Zarutian_iPad> 
ACTION channels Thor of PirateSoftware: make a bet with yourself, allow yourself the option to succeed: Do it!

2024-12-07 23:16:05 <veltas      > Ben Eater is good
2024-12-07 23:16:15 <Zarutian_iPad> damn good
2024-12-07 23:19:57 <lf94        > Hey guys! I'm finally looking to sell off the remaining My4th Lights I built a few months ago. Check it out and tell your friends - we know how niche this space is :D  http://len.falken.directory/my4th-light/
2024-12-07 23:23:40 <veltas      > My laptop has 1 million times the RAM of that computer, although it only has like ~500 times as much SRAM
2024-12-07 23:27:01 <thrig       > Thor usually isn't that crafty
2024-12-07 23:43:32 <lf94        > yea laptops are also 1 million times more complex
2024-12-07 23:43:48 <Zarutian_iPad> true that