2025-01-15 00:24:32 <xentrac     > veltas: Uxn?
2025-01-15 00:40:44 <veltas      > That's the one
2025-01-15 00:42:23 <xentrac     > 
ACTION hits veltas 

2025-01-15 00:42:50 <xentrac     > I was worried I'd have to hit myself instead because I didn't know it either
2025-01-15 00:44:23 <veltas      > 
ACTION hides

2025-01-15 12:16:57 <veltas      > pgimeno: I got a chance to play with the emulator and Python JAForth stuff yesterday
2025-01-15 12:17:11 <pgimeno     > oh yes?
2025-01-15 12:17:39 <veltas      > And it held up to expectations basically, from glancing at the code the other day
2025-01-15 12:18:19 <pgimeno     > well, note that today I've found out there's a more standard word for line comments, namely \ so I've replaced // with \ everywhere
2025-01-15 12:18:25 <veltas      > I think it might be interesting to allow it to be more interactive, so you can do some more forthy development in the terminal, but I understand that's probably not your style
2025-01-15 12:18:44 <veltas      > Oh right I don't think I even saw // so that was already replaced(?)
2025-01-15 12:18:49 <veltas      > Or maybe I don't remember lol
2025-01-15 12:19:14 <veltas      > Also would be good for it to say which word wasn't found, when it fails on a word not being found
2025-01-15 12:19:25 <veltas      > or print out where >IN was basically
2025-01-15 12:19:32 <pgimeno     > the aim was not to make it interactive, it was more of a programming aid for Jupiter
2025-01-15 12:19:41 <veltas      > Yeah I thought as much
2025-01-15 12:19:54 <veltas      > But as a happy accident of stdin it is actually interactive :P
2025-01-15 12:20:10 <pgimeno     > the emulator version is, the Python version isn't
2025-01-15 12:20:18 <veltas      > True
2025-01-15 12:20:26 <veltas      > I didn't try giving Python /dev/stdin anyway
2025-01-15 12:20:37 <pgimeno     > the emulator version reads the file as it goes; the Python version reads the whole file in one go at the start
2025-01-15 12:20:53 <veltas      > Right
2025-01-15 12:21:20 <pgimeno     > as for the word not found issue, it shows the remaining buffer after the error
2025-01-15 12:21:40 <veltas      > Fair enough
2025-01-15 12:22:06 <pgimeno     > I actually had a plan to make the python version read the file as it goes, to allow for interactivity
2025-01-15 12:22:29 <pgimeno     > but you don't have any editing capabilities, so it didn't seem very useful
2025-01-15 12:23:12 <veltas      > Do you think you'll write anything with jaforth?
2025-01-15 12:24:02 <pgimeno     > I developed JAForth because I had to give up on using [ ] LITERAL in Mazogs, so I'll convert it to use JAForth
2025-01-15 12:25:02 <pgimeno     > I'm also working right now in a .tap decompiler, and then I think I'm done with the JA software for now
2025-01-15 12:26:57 <veltas      > Was mazogs the thing that was converted from BASIC?
2025-01-15 12:27:09 <pgimeno     > yes, exactly
2025-01-15 12:27:14 <veltas      > Nice
2025-01-15 12:27:34 <pgimeno     > https://codeberg.org/pgimeno/Mazogs/src/branch/jupiter_ace
2025-01-15 12:27:37 <veltas      > Would you consider doing a demo video of mazogs when you've done it?
2025-01-15 12:28:01 <veltas      > Also do you have a JA emulator you recommend?
2025-01-15 12:28:41 <pgimeno     > hm, I don't think you'd find any difference between ZX81 Mazogs and JA Mazogs, I've cloned it in all the details
2025-01-15 12:29:05 <pgimeno     > as for the JA emulator, I mostly work with ZEsarUX and MAME
2025-01-15 12:29:34 <veltas      > Oh I can't run zesarux, burns a hole in my table
2025-01-15 12:29:35 <pgimeno     > not sure I'd recommend either, I have not tried Eighty-One though I've heard it works under Wine
2025-01-15 12:29:52 <veltas      > And lags like hell
2025-01-15 12:30:15 <pgimeno     > it had a bug until recently where memory and CPU consumption grew indefinitely
2025-01-15 12:30:28 <veltas      > Maybe that's my job then, to port fuse to the jupiterace :P
2025-01-15 12:30:31 <pgimeno     > also, it supports several engines, and SDL is not the default
2025-01-15 12:30:46 <pgimeno     > you mean to add support for JA to fuse?
2025-01-15 12:31:09 <veltas      > Yes you know what I mean
2025-01-15 12:31:20 <veltas      > I knew what I meant anyway
2025-01-15 12:32:46 <xentrac     > is it possible to record an asciinema.org video of Mazogs?  I have the impression that the ZX81 only had character graphics, so maybe it is?
2025-01-15 12:33:14 <pgimeno     > character graphics, but not ASCII
2025-01-15 12:33:37 <pgimeno     > they had to add ZX81-specific characters to the Unicode standard
2025-01-15 12:34:02 <pgimeno     > that's pretty recent, I doubt there are fonts that support them
2025-01-15 12:34:16 <xentrac     > oh really?  I thought Noto was pretty quick about adding new characters
2025-01-15 12:35:49 <pgimeno     > 0x1FB8E is one of these characters
2025-01-15 12:37:09 <pgimeno     > also, Mazogs won't look very well unless the character box aspect ratio is 1:1
2025-01-15 12:39:04 <veltas      > The pixel ratio isn't 1:1 on a real ZX81 is it?  Sorry being pedantic, it's still nothing like a normal font ratio
2025-01-15 12:46:23 <pgimeno     > the characters are 8x8 pixels, and the pixel aspect ratio depends on the TV but is close to 1:1 (and can be made to be 1:1)
2025-01-15 12:48:15 <pgimeno     > the Jupiter ACE is very similar, and its screen composition is here: https://codeberg.org/wilco2009/Mercury_Ace/media/branch/main/images/JupiterAce_screen.png
2025-01-15 12:49:28 <pgimeno     > depending on how much of the border is visible (CRT TVs used to have a vertical zoom feature) the aspect ratio can be made 1:1
2025-01-15 12:50:14 <pgimeno     > on US machines that might be different, idk
2025-01-15 14:52:58 <veltas      > I just mean on a 4:3 Trinitron TV my ZX Spectrum lined up nicely with the phosphor dots, no problem, and yet the 'pixels' clearly weren't square
2025-01-15 14:53:20 <veltas      > The big picture is that what was a square on an emulator was actually a rectangle in real hardware
2025-01-15 14:53:40 <veltas      > And I think this kind of sizing is quite standard for 4:3 CRT's
2025-01-15 14:54:39 <veltas      > I'm sure it can be adjusted, but there's nothing 'wrong' with the signal, it's just the way PAL works on a 4:3 CRT, to my best understanding
2025-01-15 14:56:15 <veltas      > Basically the pixels are more like 5:4 than 1:1, I don't know exact proportion but can probably be calculated if 4:3 is the goal
2025-01-15 15:11:47 <pgimeno     > thing is, CRT TVs vary in how many lines and horizontal size they show; I don't remember seeing oval circles in the Spectrum, for one, and I'm very sensitive to wrong aspect ratios. I would have noticed a 5:4 PAR deformation. I believe the SNES had about that PAR though.
2025-01-15 15:37:16 <xentrac     > there's usually a trimpot to change the gain on each of the horizontal deflection and the vertical deflection
2025-01-15 15:48:53 <KipIngram   > I imagine most humans CAN detect "out of true circle" fairly sensitively - it probably just "bothers" some of them more than others.  I just can't put up with watching a video that's out of aspect ratio, particularly if it has people in it.
2025-01-15 15:49:54 <KipIngram   > I wonder if you tested this on a population using a) a circle and b) a square if you'd get an observed difference.  I want to think you would - that the circle would produce a higher sensitivity.
2025-01-15 15:50:28 <KipIngram   > Or a "flat" square vs. a diamond oriented square.
2025-01-15 15:50:41 <KipIngram   > I think in that case the diamond would win.
2025-01-15 15:51:57 <KipIngram   > pgimeno: How sensitive are you to slightly out of tune notes in a melody?  That's one that I catch really well.  I can't sing to save my life, but when I'm just listening I know if it's wrong.
2025-01-15 16:02:02 <veltas      > There's a big difference between showing a circle on a TV out of context, and showing it after usign that TV for hours
2025-01-15 16:02:24 <veltas      > And you look away and everything looks red-tinted and oblong, your eyes may have adjusted to the TV lol
2025-01-15 16:02:55 <veltas      > No that doesn't really happen, but I will say, especially with pixel graphics, your brain is filling in some of the gaps
2025-01-15 16:03:17 <veltas      > I found a thread and apparently on an 80's CRT the Spectrum was very close to square, and lots of micros from the era weren't
2025-01-15 16:05:37 <xentrac     > cool
2025-01-15 16:14:27 <pgimeno     > KipIngram: I couldn't say, but given a tone and another reference tone, I can tell if it's off. For example, a 2 kHz active buzzer I have is slightly off of a reference 2 kHz signal produced by my signal generator.
2025-01-15 16:16:00 <pgimeno     > anyway, back to the point about character aspect ratio, the fact is that fonts often have close to a 1:2 aspect ratio, and that's very perceivable. Those who have seen CGA 40x25 and 80x25 column modes can tell.
2025-01-15 16:16:58 <pgimeno     > That's why I don't think an ASCII version of Mazogs would look OK unless rendered with a special 1:1 (or close enough) font.
2025-01-15 16:28:04 <veltas      > Yeah this is why I said my point was pedantic, even if it was true, the fonts are way off
2025-01-15 16:41:20 <xentrac     > I suppose asciinema.org renders with some font it specifies