2025-03-05 09:54:31 <user51      > What words should I focus on writing first?
2025-03-05 09:55:42 <user51      > I've got a not-quite-forth seemingly working, not super happy with it but I've tuned the code way too much instead of solving the problem I have.
2025-03-05 09:56:05 <user51      > Alternatively, I could just focus on doing some simple programming tasks in it and see what comes up.
2025-03-05 11:44:17 <xentrac     > veltas: condolences
2025-03-05 11:44:56 <xentrac     > user51: my suggestion would be to write a game
2025-03-05 11:45:43 <xentrac     > AoC is a fine alternative if you like solving puzzles more
2025-03-05 14:07:22 <vms14_      > user51 you can just try to make some program and add whatever you need on the fly
2025-03-05 14:07:49 <vms14_      > that's what I usually do
2025-03-05 14:08:06 <vms14_      > then I go to a corner to cry because using my lang is hard
2025-03-05 14:09:13 <vms14_      > at the end it is your lang so you can do whatever you want, which is the cool part
2025-03-05 14:09:32 <vms14_      > also if you are curious on how to add some programming concept you can just do it
2025-03-05 14:09:50 <vms14_      > like if you want to add objects, or some sort of metaprogramming, etc
2025-03-05 14:10:52 <vms14_      > that said, forr a forth like I would try to make words that mess with the dictionary and memory
2025-03-05 14:11:12 <vms14_      > making a simple todo list might be a good start
2025-03-05 14:18:34 <vms14_      > I guess in your case I would start by having ':' then stack operators, create does>,  ." s" dump move fill erase variable constant etc
2025-03-05 14:19:04 <vms14_      > debugging words would be helpful, dump being one of them
2025-03-05 14:19:50 <vms14       > I'm going to add a word named 'debug' that will take a list and will evaluate every element one by one, printing the stack and additional info
2025-03-05 14:20:04 <vms14       > you could make something similar
2025-03-05 14:20:45 <vms14       > I have a cool word named 'check-stack' that takes a number and checks if the stack has that number of elements
2025-03-05 14:21:54 <vms14       > but I have no more ideas for words that help to debug
2025-03-05 14:23:48 <xentrac     > F83 has a single-stepping debugger
2025-03-05 14:24:17 <vms14       > I have also decided to not waste time documenting it and not publishing since I loose a lot ot time trying to explain everything to anyone and the end
2025-03-05 14:24:40 <vms14       > when I have to focus on making it usable for me
2025-03-05 14:25:07 <vms14       > at the end*
2025-03-05 14:26:58 <vms14       > oh I already had the debug word xd
2025-03-05 14:55:51 <crc         > update on my bot project: the vm now starts, runs a per-user session with the provided input, saves the ram & stacks, then prints a stack dump. Each run resumes the ram  stacks from the prior run, so it has persistence w/o needing any long running processes.
2025-03-05 14:57:31 <crc         > I'll be working on finishing the per-user block storage tonight or tomorrow, then will get this documented & active for general testing
2025-03-05 14:57:44 <deadmarshal_> crc: cool!
2025-03-05 15:06:09 <cleobuline  > ForthBot:   1 2 3 4 5 DEPTH ROLL .S
2025-03-05 15:06:09 <ForthBot    > Stack: 1 2 3 4 5
2025-03-05 15:06:24 <cleobuline  > ForthBot:  FLUSH
2025-03-05 15:06:30 <cleobuline  > ForthBot:   1 2 3 4 5 DEPTH ROLL .S
2025-03-05 15:06:30 <ForthBot    > Stack: 2 3 4 5 1
2025-03-05 15:12:54 <cleobuline  > ForthBot:   1 2 3 4 5 DEPTH PICK .S
2025-03-05 15:12:54 <ForthBot    > Error: PICK: Stack underflow or invalid index
2025-03-05 15:16:04 <cleobuline  > ForthBot: FLUSH 1 2 3 4 5 DEPTH 1 - PICK .S
2025-03-05 15:16:04 <ForthBot    > Stack: 1 2 3 4 5 1
2025-03-05 15:47:23 <vms14       > I guess I will add a word to check that the elements on the stack are what I expect
2025-03-05 15:48:34 <vms14       > like:  1 2 (1 2) expect-stack
2025-03-05 15:50:53 <vms14       > and I can make it check only the last elements and combine it with check-stack
2025-03-05 15:59:19 <vms14       > what debugging words did you add to your own forths that I could steal?
2025-03-05 15:59:45 <vms14       > or how to give more control over the stack
2025-03-05 16:00:05 <vms14       > I have no problems for operating with the stack, but I have problems to control it
2025-03-05 16:00:48 <vms14       > it is so easy for the stack to start having garbage or missing elements at different points of execution
2025-03-05 16:02:37 <vms14       > that's why I added the debug and check-stack word and I'm going to add expect-stack and : prove-stack dup >r expect-stack r> length expect-stack ;
2025-03-05 16:03:26 <vms14       > although I have no r> >r, but temporary variables that will be destroyed once the colon word ends execution
2025-03-05 16:18:52 <crc         > vms14: the main things I use are just .s and a memory dump word
2025-03-05 16:20:01 <vms14       > crc what advice do you have on managing complexity in a concat lang more than factor, factor, factor?
2025-03-05 16:20:41 <crc         > Retro has a debugger with single stepper, execution tracing, and disassembly/decompilation, but I only ever use it when working on compiler extensions
2025-03-05 16:21:37 <crc         > vms14: for me, practice over the years, and building up useful abstractions
2025-03-05 20:49:42 <user51      > Any videos of F86 in action?  I can't find any on YT
2025-03-05 20:56:10 <xentrac     > F86?
2025-03-05 20:56:55 <user51      > xentrac: forth86
2025-03-05 20:57:02 <xentrac     > never heard of it
2025-03-05 20:58:36 <user51      > Maybe it was 83?
2025-03-05 21:00:09 <vms14       > crc now that I think of, I have something similar.to your sigils, although I name them special chars
2025-03-05 21:00:49 <vms14       > and just make return them as a whole word without needing spaces
2025-03-05 21:01:26 <vms14       > '(' and ')' are special so I can (oh)
2025-03-05 21:01:36 <vms14       > but '(' is just a defined word
2025-03-05 21:02:40 <vms14       > for example this creates comments with < and > like <this is a comment>
2025-03-05 21:02:52 <vms14       > : < source '> skip ;    '< special
2025-03-05 21:03:23 <vms14       > source is the source code file handle being pushed on the stack, and skip just skips until it finds the >
2025-03-05 21:03:43 <vms14       > '< special would be similar in your lang to make it a sigil
2025-03-05 21:04:09 <vms14       > well also < has to be immediate
2025-03-05 21:04:51 <vms14       > to work in : and ( and any reader word that is aware of immediate words
2025-03-05 21:05:40 <vms14       > not sure about using <for comments> but I'm already using a lot of symbols
2025-03-05 21:05:42 <xentrac     > F83 and Forth-83 are two different things; Forth-83 is a standard, and F83 is a model implementation of it
2025-03-05 21:05:59 <xentrac     > I have F83 here running in Dosbox
2025-03-05 21:16:56 <amby        > vms14: you might want your block comment word to count nesting
2025-03-05 21:17:27 <amby        > in jonesforth `(` counts additional ( and ) and only ends the comment on the matching )
2025-03-05 21:49:20 <vms14       > maybe in the future I might want that feature
2025-03-05 21:49:41 <vms14       > but for now I do not have a reason
2025-03-05 21:49:50 <vms14       > although I do not really like <> to be comments
2025-03-05 21:50:51 <vms14       > I suppose I should change one of the ones I use already
2025-03-05 21:51:42 <vms14       > maybe [ ]
2025-03-05 21:52:35 <xentrac     > Lua, Ada, and VHDL use -- to end of line
2025-03-05 21:53:16 <xentrac     > OCaml uses (* *) which I think it got from Pascal
2025-03-05 21:53:22 <xentrac     > (and they do nest)
2025-03-05 21:53:49 <xentrac     > Pascal uses { } as well, but (* *) lets you do Pascal in character sets that lack { }
2025-03-05 21:54:56 <xentrac     > traditional block-structured Forths have "shadow blocks" with commentary on corresponding code blocks, which are conventionally printed out on the right side of a page
2025-03-05 21:55:04 <vms14       > I guess I will forget about multiline comments for now and just use --- for line comments
2025-03-05 21:55:18 <xentrac     > so it's something like the first 64 columns are code and the next 64 columns are comments
2025-03-05 21:55:36 <vms14       > they will require a space between, but I like that also
2025-03-05 21:56:19 <xentrac     > yeah, normally there were more columns devoted to line numbers and separators
2025-03-05 21:56:27 <vms14       > but the main use for a comment in my lang would be to disable code
2025-03-05 21:56:42 <xentrac     > ColorForth uses a different color for comments
2025-03-05 21:56:54 <xentrac     > you could also use a different font
2025-03-05 21:57:02 <vms14       > I can make a word that ignores stuff at any moment