2025-04-03 02:46:14 <xentrac     > heh
2025-04-03 02:46:47 <xentrac     > crc: fantastic!
2025-04-03 04:21:47 <neauoire    > crc: found a broken page at: https://konilo.org/manual/quote.html
2025-04-03 04:22:57 <xentrac     > neauoire: was my explanation about Git the other day of any use?
2025-04-03 04:23:14 <xentrac     > I feel like it would be useful to have Git inside things like uxn
2025-04-03 04:23:42 <neauoire    > like a uxn-native git system?
2025-04-03 04:24:09 <neauoire    > yes, your explanation was helpful btw
2025-04-03 04:24:31 <neauoire    > I'm very incompetent with git X)
2025-04-03 04:25:29 <neauoire    > xentrac: I recently added a little section on the assembler about bootstrapping, that might be interesting to you :)
2025-04-03 04:25:32 <neauoire    > https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/drifblim#bootstrap
2025-04-03 04:26:18 <neauoire    > it's just aimed at assembling the self-hosted assembler for specific systems, but I feel like it touches up some of your research
2025-04-03 04:26:49 <neauoire    > (a bit)
2025-04-03 04:27:46 <xentrac     > ooh, fantastic!
2025-04-03 04:28:53 <xentrac     > you know, I still have never written my own assembler
2025-04-03 04:29:20 <neauoire    > really?! I was certain you must have written a hundred of those haha
2025-04-03 04:29:24 <neauoire    > I only wrote two
2025-04-03 04:29:29 <neauoire    > one for 6502, and one for uxn
2025-04-03 04:29:43 <xentrac     > no, just used assemblers other people wrote
2025-04-03 04:29:44 <neauoire    > (I wrote the 6502 one in C, so that doesn't really count)
2025-04-03 04:29:48 <xentrac     > sure it does
2025-04-03 04:29:58 <neauoire    > well there isn't much to it
2025-04-03 04:30:55 <xentrac     > yeah, a uxn-native git system; version tracking is really a powerful force multiplier in programming
2025-04-03 04:30:55 <neauoire    > filling string buffers, and figuring out which number it equates to
2025-04-03 04:31:06 <xentrac     > Knuth in one of his books suggested that you ought to be able to write a simple assembler in a day
2025-04-03 04:31:06 <neauoire    > I'd need to learn to use git proper before I try to implement something like that haha
2025-04-03 04:31:21 <xentrac     > but maybe not for the large number of instructions on current machines, or maybe even on a 6502
2025-04-03 04:31:28 <neauoire    > knuth might be right, but you need practice
2025-04-03 04:31:37 <xentrac     > yeah, he has a lot of practice
2025-04-03 04:31:41 <neauoire    > 6502 is surprisingly.. a pain in the butt to implement
2025-04-03 04:31:52 <neauoire    > and there's a couple of variances in the different dialects
2025-04-03 04:32:05 <xentrac     > compared to PDP-8, sure
2025-04-03 04:32:13 <xentrac     > but maybe not compared to Pentium MMX
2025-04-03 04:32:17 <neauoire    > my assembler followed one style, and then I realized that everyone does pretty much whatever they want and there's no standard
2025-04-03 04:33:20 <neauoire    > anyways you should try to write one at some point
2025-04-03 04:33:24 <neauoire    > it's fun
2025-04-03 04:33:55 <neauoire    > it's even more fun if it's not for a register machine ;)
2025-04-03 04:34:31 <xentrac     > I will!  I think I'll probably do a register machine though
2025-04-03 04:34:49 <neauoire    > it's a safe bet for your first one
2025-04-03 04:34:53 <xentrac     > my current objective is a low-level bytecode that is trivial to generate reasonable native code for
2025-04-03 04:35:00 <neauoire    > nice
2025-04-03 04:35:15 <xentrac     > so you can compile your C program or whatever to this low-level bytecode, and then when you want to run it, you JIT it to native code
2025-04-03 04:35:41 <neauoire    > yeah, that's cool
2025-04-03 04:35:42 <xentrac     > so I'm thinking register machine, moderately CISCy addressing modes with things like scaled offsets, maybe pre- and postincrement
2025-04-03 04:36:20 <xentrac     > just so the JIT compiler doesn't have to go hunting for opportunities to combine shifts, adds, and loads into a single ARM or amd64 instruction
2025-04-03 04:36:27 <neauoire    > you could write a LLVM IR assembler
2025-04-03 04:36:45 <xentrac     > yeah, but I want something you could implement in an afternoon or on an AVR
2025-04-03 04:36:52 <neauoire    > haha, oof.
2025-04-03 04:36:59 <xentrac     > and I don't think LLVM IR fits either of those descriptions
2025-04-03 04:37:05 <neauoire    > well that's .. okay
2025-04-03 04:37:22 <xentrac     > btw you might be interested in the recent discussion on Character Assassination News about CollapseOS and salvaged microcontrollers
2025-04-03 04:37:24 <neauoire    > good luck
2025-04-03 04:37:34 <neauoire    > what's happening?
2025-04-03 04:37:56 <neauoire    > character assassination news
2025-04-03 04:38:04 <neauoire    > that's what you call HN right?
2025-04-03 04:38:48 <xentrac     > yes
2025-04-03 04:38:58 <xentrac     > Magic-1 HomebrewCPU: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43496837
2025-04-03 04:39:05 <neauoire    > lemme have a look : )
2025-04-03 04:39:30 <xentrac     > USB keyboards with PS/2 protocol support: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43502308
2025-04-03 04:39:45 <neauoire    > mhmm looks like the magic-1 website is dwn
2025-04-03 04:40:12 <neauoire    > 200 TTL chips lol
2025-04-03 04:40:27 <xentrac     > recovering flashable AVRs from e-waste: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43488246
2025-04-03 04:40:55 <xentrac     > different approaches to building ARM-level CPUs from parts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43489873
2025-04-03 04:41:46 <xentrac     > discussion of the ubiquity or non-ubiquity of the Z80: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43487386
2025-04-03 04:42:18 <xentrac     > including the valuable clarification from Virgil that in fact CollapseOS runs on TI-84+ calculators but isn't yet self-hosting
2025-04-03 04:42:23 <xentrac     > (on them)
2025-04-03 04:43:09 <xentrac     > uses for computers that survive civilizational collapse: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43487785
2025-04-03 04:43:20 <neauoire    > lol, cOS always leads down the same sort of dead-end debates about Oh you're better off repuposing ARMs they're everywhere, blabla
2025-04-03 04:43:34 <neauoire    > I feel like HN has a rehash of this every few months
2025-04-03 04:44:27 <xentrac     > batteries, quantitative discussion of ARM abundance, relative ease of application of Z80 chips, etc.: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43485062
2025-04-03 04:44:39 <neauoire    > A lot of folks talking over each other about something they don't need have an opinion about
2025-04-03 04:44:51 <xentrac     > yeah, maybe I should try to write up a summary of my conclusions
2025-04-03 04:45:04 <xentrac     > I learned a fair bit from this repetition of the debate, though
2025-04-03 04:45:32 <neauoire    > It would be huge to have a page from you on this
2025-04-03 04:45:48 <xentrac     > well, I wrote several thousand words in the thread...
2025-04-03 04:45:57 <neauoire    > yeah I'm looking at that right now..
2025-04-03 04:46:01 <neauoire    > but this is HN..
2025-04-03 04:46:06 <xentrac     > though some of them were pointing out that what I wrote previously was wrong
2025-04-03 04:46:35 <xentrac     > I've also been thinking more about windup computers
2025-04-03 04:47:02 <neauoire    > I wonder if maybe we see HN interface differently
2025-04-03 04:47:03 <xentrac     > just on the theory that a watchspring is longer-lasting than a battery or electrolytic capacitors and smaller and cheaper than solid capacitors
2025-04-03 04:47:17 <neauoire    > because in some of your replies, there's like a series of 20 lines separated with spaces
2025-04-03 04:47:26 <neauoire    > it's.. pretty hard to figure out what is what
2025-04-03 04:47:53 <xentrac     > do you mean
2025-04-03 04:47:59 <xentrac     > "Lucretia gravely ill. Hurry."
2025-04-03 04:47:59 <xentrac     > "I-44 mile 451: bandits."
2025-04-03 04:48:00 <xentrac     > "Corn $55 at Salem."
2025-04-03 04:48:00 <xentrac     > ?
2025-04-03 04:48:31 <neauoire    > no, right after Raymond Chen's introductory Thumb materia
2025-04-03 04:48:55 <xentrac     > oh, there are like 20 URLs separated by spaces, yes
2025-04-03 04:49:09 <xentrac     > because AFAIK there is no other page on the internet that lists them all
2025-04-03 04:49:29 <xentrac     > I had to tediously edit the Microsoft blog by-date URLs to find them
2025-04-03 04:49:46 <neauoire    > yiish
2025-04-03 04:49:57 <neauoire    > well it's very thourough
2025-04-03 04:49:58 <xentrac     > (all of Chen's ARM Thumb2 tutorial posts)
2025-04-03 04:51:10 <neauoire    > I just hope cOS gets a few programmers interested in learning about forth, or assembly
2025-04-03 04:51:23 <neauoire    > which are pretty portable skills
2025-04-03 04:51:36 <neauoire    > the arm, z80, debate..
2025-04-03 04:51:38 <neauoire    > 
ACTION shrugs

2025-04-03 04:52:19 <xentrac     > I think there are probably a lot of people who would love assembly on the ARM and hate it on the Z80
2025-04-03 04:52:28 <neauoire    > for every student discovering non C languages, there's 10 dickhead getting in fucking vibe coding
2025-04-03 04:52:37 <xentrac     > haha
2025-04-03 04:53:01 <xentrac     > I should try vibecoding
2025-04-03 04:53:06 <neauoire    > XD
2025-04-03 04:53:31 <xentrac     > my experiences using LLMs for programming so far have been pretty variable
2025-04-03 04:54:11 <neauoire    > I've tried a bit but unless you're writing some python, javascript or some other garbage like that, it can't figure out how to do anything
2025-04-03 04:54:31 <xentrac     > nothing really earth-shattering so far.  maybe stronger typechecking or other formal methods could help
2025-04-03 04:54:45 <xentrac     > yeah, it works a lot better in Python and JS than in Scheme or Forth
2025-04-03 04:55:01 <neauoire    > personally, typing the program down, I don't find is the part I need help with
2025-04-03 04:56:23 <xentrac     > well, like, I couldn't remember how Bresenham's line-drawing algorithm worked
2025-04-03 04:56:54 <xentrac     > so I asked GPT-4 and it gave me the first draft of http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/bresenham.c
2025-04-03 04:57:21 <xentrac     > oh actually I think it was http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/smolhersheyexample.c
2025-04-03 04:58:00 <xentrac     > I gave it my Hershey-font library header file and asked it to write an example using Bresenham's algorithm to produce ASCII art IIRC
2025-04-03 04:58:12 <neauoire    > since we have periods of intermitent connectivity, I keep a big pile of these sorts of algorithms I use all the time
2025-04-03 04:59:03 <xentrac     > maybe you could keep the pile in the form of a gguf file for llama.cpp ;-)
2025-04-03 04:59:13 <neauoire    > XD gross.
2025-04-03 04:59:14 <neauoire    > nooo
2025-04-03 04:59:19 <xentrac     > haha
2025-04-03 04:59:32 <xentrac     > do you have Kiwix ZIM files for Wikipedia and Stack Overflow?
2025-04-03 04:59:37 <neauoire    > I don't
2025-04-03 04:59:40 <neauoire    > I did at one point
2025-04-03 04:59:54 <xentrac     > I've found them worthwhile when I had intermittent connectivity
2025-04-03 05:00:01 <neauoire    > and I just didn't use it, instead my partner and I have save websites to a drive
2025-04-03 05:00:06 <neauoire    > and that's our "library"
2025-04-03 05:00:17 <xentrac     > yeah, that's definitely worthwhile
2025-04-03 05:00:24 <neauoire    > so throughout the winter to save the things we think we'll need during the summer
2025-04-03 05:00:29 <neauoire    > and that's been working out pretty well
2025-04-03 05:00:51 <neauoire    > better than trying to load the zim archive
2025-04-03 05:01:14 <neauoire    > maybe it's better now but the zim toolchain sucks
2025-04-03 05:01:16 <neauoire    > sucked*
2025-04-03 05:01:21 <xentrac     > oh, yeah, the zim toolchain suuucks
2025-04-03 05:01:37 <neauoire    > the one time I tried to open it up just to see if it worked, it didn't want to start at all
2025-04-03 05:01:40 <xentrac     > but downloading all of English Wikipedia as a single file is fucking fantastic
2025-04-03 05:01:44 <neauoire    > not very... robust
2025-04-03 05:01:46 <neauoire    > or reliable
2025-04-03 05:01:59 <xentrac     > the zim format also sucks
2025-04-03 05:02:16 <neauoire    > so you can get Cher's birthday to win a bet when you're offgrid
2025-04-03 05:02:45 <neauoire    > we have medical books, and that sort of more dedicated knowledge stuff instead
2025-04-03 05:02:53 <neauoire    > it's more useful than wikipedia summaries usually
2025-04-03 05:03:29 <neauoire    > for all nerdy things, I got docs/
2025-04-03 05:03:30 <xentrac     > well, I was thinking more so that I can look up composite video voltages when I'm offgrid, or Bresenham's algorithm, or the geographical distribution of minority dialects in Italy
2025-04-03 05:03:31 <neauoire    > ;)
2025-04-03 05:03:32 <neauoire    > https://wiki.xxiivv.com/docs/
2025-04-03 05:03:49 <xentrac     > wow, nice!
2025-04-03 05:04:25 <neauoire    > it's my trove
2025-04-03 05:04:35 <neauoire    > only top tier content :3
2025-04-03 05:05:00 <xentrac     > my recent Wikipedia reading includes stuff on the NE612 analog RF mixer chip, other analog multiplication circuits, etc.
2025-04-03 05:05:04 <xentrac     > also though "vabbing"
2025-04-03 05:05:27 <xentrac     > and I also had to look up who Val Kilmer was because apparently he died
2025-04-03 05:05:46 <neauoire    > you're a much more technically inclined person than I am I think ^^
2025-04-03 05:06:46 <xentrac     > haha, well, maybe I would benefit from being more well-rounded
2025-04-03 05:06:51 <neauoire    > my wikipedia searches are mostly to find authors and artist date of births and other random trivia
2025-04-03 05:07:44 <neauoire    > my past few weeks have been mostly drawing
2025-04-03 05:07:49 <neauoire    > Oh I did I make a flash-like program
2025-04-03 05:07:55 <xentrac     > cool!
2025-04-03 05:07:56 <neauoire    > so I could draw little animations
2025-04-03 05:08:04 <neauoire    > https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/flick.html
2025-04-03 05:08:38 <neauoire    > it's really nice, I've pretty much wasted the past two weeks doodling little nonsense slideshows with this
2025-04-03 05:08:52 <xentrac     > what do you think of Bill Buxton's GENESYS UI?  I'm sure you've tried the UI idioms he tried for animation in it, and I'd like to know how they work out in practice
2025-04-03 05:09:24 <xentrac     > oh wow, one color per slide.  I have to show this to Mina
2025-04-03 05:09:52 <neauoire    > 4 colors per slide
2025-04-03 05:10:53 <neauoire    > genesis is more like vector, I'm more of a raster artist
2025-04-03 05:10:53 <xentrac     > oh?  I thought each slide was named by a color
2025-04-03 05:11:05 <neauoire    > click red -> goto 5, click blue -> goto 10
2025-04-03 05:11:06 <neauoire    > basically
2025-04-03 05:11:11 <xentrac     > I see
2025-04-03 05:11:15 <xentrac     > so the slides are named with numbers
2025-04-03 05:11:25 <neauoire    > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgqSwkQPvyI
2025-04-03 05:11:53 <neauoire    > mhmm not quite
2025-04-03 05:12:12 <neauoire    > you pick a color, then a slide, so clicking a pixel of that color will send you there
2025-04-03 05:12:16 <xentrac     > how sad is it that we're depending on Google to share this video
2025-04-03 05:12:37 <neauoire    > Oh I have a mp4
2025-04-03 05:12:51 <neauoire    > I shared you a yt because I thought maybe you'd like to see others like it
2025-04-03 05:12:54 <neauoire    > but here instead:
2025-04-03 05:13:17 <xentrac     > it's beautiful
2025-04-03 05:13:29 <neauoire    > https://assets.merveilles.town/media_attachments/files/114/214/377/856/114/255/original/4fcea90defbaa6b4.mp4
2025-04-03 05:13:38 <neauoire    > it has animation and onion skinning
2025-04-03 05:14:08 <neauoire    > https://assets.merveilles.town/media_attachments/files/114/213/344/682/481/225/original/b16e175166027107.mp4
2025-04-03 05:14:18 <neauoire    > this is a little game someone made that's really neat
2025-04-03 05:15:00 <neauoire    > anyways, fun little gizmo, keeps me busy at night
2025-04-03 05:15:19 <xentrac     > haha, that's awesome
2025-04-03 05:15:41 <xentrac     > it didn't occur to me that you could make an actually challenging game with just those tools
2025-04-03 05:16:09 <neauoire    > there's a lot of neat tricks you can do like
2025-04-03 05:16:12 <xentrac     > how did you make the cat's head rotate slightly in 4fcea?
2025-04-03 05:16:30 <xentrac     > (and scale)
2025-04-03 05:16:34 <neauoire    > if I paint chessboard patterns of two colors really tightly, and ask you to click in that area, it's basically a 50/50 random
2025-04-03 05:16:48 <neauoire    > that's just frame by frame animation
2025-04-03 05:16:55 <neauoire    > it's a famous animation that I traced
2025-04-03 05:17:24 <neauoire    > I'm not too much into transformers and stuff, I don't mind just drawing the thing
2025-04-03 05:17:25 <xentrac     > ah
2025-04-03 05:17:54 <neauoire    > https://assets.merveilles.town/media_attachments/files/114/190/209/862/789/212/original/4504fe03ee160dfa.png
2025-04-03 05:18:07 <neauoire    > it's basically a coloring book program
2025-04-03 05:18:20 <neauoire    > where you can jump between the images by clicking on one of two colors
2025-04-03 05:18:59 <xentrac     > yes. which is awesome
2025-04-03 05:19:49 <neauoire    > drawing ui in uxn is pretty high up on the list of my favourite things in life..
2025-04-03 05:19:55 <neauoire    > I don't know why~
2025-04-03 05:20:19 <xentrac     > if you make a circle of three images, you can make a supernode with three outlinks
2025-04-03 05:20:29 <neauoire    > yeah!
2025-04-03 05:20:34 <xentrac     > so you can make an arbitrary graph structure
2025-04-03 05:20:56 <neauoire    > you can have animation loops of any length inside a project
2025-04-03 05:21:20 <neauoire    > so you can sort of loop over 3 frames and have an animation play, until you click on something, and then play a different animation somewhere else
2025-04-03 05:21:40 <neauoire    > I wrote a compiler from flick.rom projects to uxn roms :3
2025-04-03 05:21:55 <neauoire    > https://paste.sr.ht/~rabbits/a913a897561cedec194caeca5534f03c13a42579
2025-04-03 05:22:13 <neauoire    > so I can share the games for the web, which is neat
2025-04-03 05:22:14 <xentrac     > I mostly only draw on paper, but my notebooks are always unlined paper to facilitate that
2025-04-03 05:22:28 <neauoire    > nice, same
2025-04-03 05:23:37 <xentrac     > but mostly I draw things like piping and flow diagrams, electronic schematics, and letterforms rather than cartoons or perspective drawings or still lifes
2025-04-03 05:23:50 <neauoire    > nerd alert
2025-04-03 05:24:00 <neauoire    > that's cool tho
2025-04-03 05:24:08 <xentrac     > though I do draw a tiny little cartoon for the title of each page which I later copy into the table of contents along with the title
2025-04-03 05:24:16 <neauoire    > paper and pencils are pretty much peak technology in my eyes
2025-04-03 05:24:44 <neauoire    > https://rabbits.srht.site/days/
2025-04-03 05:25:05 <neauoire    > we keep this calendar in the galley, and rek and I always add silly doodles to it when the other is not looking
2025-04-03 05:25:35 <xentrac     > yeah, I think I'm kind of stuck in this low-drawing-skill equilibrium where if I did it more I'd probably get better and if I were better I'd probably do it more
2025-04-03 05:25:48 <xentrac     > one of those pages just crashed not just my browser but my whole X session
2025-04-03 05:26:02 <neauoire    > the mp3 files or days?
2025-04-03 05:26:06 <xentrac     > probably
2025-04-03 05:26:22 <neauoire    > days is just a plain html file with a few images
2025-04-03 05:26:27 <neauoire    > the mp4 might be to blame
2025-04-03 05:26:29 <neauoire    > HEY
2025-04-03 05:26:38 <neauoire    > it's you who didn't want me to give you youtube shit
2025-04-03 05:26:43 <neauoire    > ;)
2025-04-03 05:27:39 <xentrac     > yeah, I don't really have a solution
2025-04-03 05:28:10 <xentrac     > video playing in theory ought to be one of the thing that should be safest against memory exhaustion problems
2025-04-03 05:28:22 <neauoire    > yeah..
2025-04-03 05:28:31 <xentrac     > I blame Firefox
2025-04-03 05:28:33 <neauoire    > it knows the length, it should be able to cycle memory as you go
2025-04-03 05:28:49 <neauoire    > anyways, I've got no more videos to share ^^
2025-04-03 05:29:02 <xentrac     > heh
2025-04-03 05:30:54 <neauoire    > aight, I gotta run
2025-04-03 05:30:54 <xentrac     > I did a thing a few years ago where I drew a tiny cartoon with a scene for each day
2025-04-03 05:30:56 <xentrac     > thanks for the chat!
2025-04-03 05:31:09 <neauoire    > damn, I want to hear more about the daily cartoon haha
2025-04-03 05:31:25 <neauoire    > I'm brushing my teeth, but tell me before I head out
2025-04-03 05:31:32 <neauoire    > how did it work out after the month
2025-04-03 05:33:02 <xentrac     > I'm not sure how it changed my perception of the time.  it was interesting but I didn't manage to keep it going for more than a month or two
2025-04-03 05:33:16 <xentrac     > I feel like it did give me a different perspective
2025-04-03 05:33:44 <xentrac     > because what seemed important enough to sketch that day was often things I would forget
2025-04-03 05:35:29 <xentrac     > another couple of things I have tried for changing my perception of time are http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/siercal (350kB) and http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/threepowcommit.py
2025-04-03 05:36:17 <xentrac     > today threepowcommit.py has no commits to show me in dev3
2025-04-03 05:36:56 <xentrac     > but in pavnotes2 it reminds me that on March 7 I committed "Add notes on Camenzind and charkhas"
2025-04-03 05:42:33 <neauoire    > I'm glad : ) drawing's good for the mind
2025-04-03 05:43:02 <neauoire    > WOW
2025-04-03 05:43:05 <neauoire    > siercal is cool
2025-04-03 05:43:10 <neauoire    > how have not seen this
2025-04-03 05:43:44 <neauoire    > I like that
2025-04-03 05:44:16 <neauoire    > I've been using a weird made up calendar format for all my things for .. 16 years now
2025-04-03 05:44:34 <neauoire    > that..'s a story for another time, off to bed o/
2025-04-03 05:45:32 <xentrac     > oh, I hope I get a chance to see it!
2025-04-03 10:19:31 <veltas      > If I found out someone had never written an assembler, then that would really change my whole perception of how many assemblers they had written
2025-04-03 10:20:15 <veltas      > The easiest assembler I've written was in Lua, I should go back and see what I had available and see what I can do to provide it in Forth
2025-04-03 10:21:19 <veltas      > Forth has the big advantage that you are extending an existing interpreter that can read words, but as we all know that's not the most ... structured or trivial way to create a new language!
2025-04-03 10:28:33 <veltas      > I've bought a Milk-V Duo S, sue me.
2025-04-03 10:29:14 <veltas      > I'm hoping to do some RISC-V Forth stuff with it
2025-04-03 10:29:31 <veltas      > Get on that hype train
2025-04-03 10:32:46 <xentrac     > haha
2025-04-03 10:32:51 <xentrac     > RISC-V is awesome, although I still like ARM better
2025-04-03 10:33:37 <veltas      > I think RISC-V is not good, but I love the energy behind it and concept of openness
2025-04-03 10:33:55 <veltas      > And the issues it has aren't deal breakers
2025-04-03 10:34:02 <xentrac     > oh?  what would you change if you were doing it?
2025-04-03 10:34:13 <veltas      > Carry flags
2025-04-03 10:35:13 <veltas      > Lay out spec more like a manual than a paper, less granular feature selection to simplify things
2025-04-03 10:35:36 <veltas      > Just my opinion and nothing that is going to be a real issue in practice
2025-04-03 10:42:02 <xentrac     > sounds reasonable
2025-04-03 11:15:24 <cleobuline  > hello !
2025-04-03 11:15:33 <cleobuline  > mforth:  HELLO
2025-04-03 11:15:33 <mforth      > Hello cleobuline How are uou ?
2025-04-03 11:22:59 <cleobuline  > mforth:  EURO
2025-04-03 11:22:59 <mforth      > 26 47 40 5 22 10 3
2025-04-03 13:41:48 <crc         > neauoire: there'll be a few broken links, to blocks I've not yet written
2025-04-03 13:41:56 <crc         > working on fixing these
2025-04-03 15:11:23 <konilo-bot  > Konilo via IRC
2025-04-03 16:46:18 <neauoire    > oki :) good to know  : )
2025-04-03 22:26:36 <veltas      > konilo-bot: hello
2025-04-03 22:27:17 <veltas      > konilo-bot: #1 #2 n:add n:put
2025-04-03 22:28:16 <veltas      > konilo-bot: #1 #2 n:add n:put
2025-04-03 22:28:24 <veltas      > !konilo #1 #2 n:add n:put
2025-04-03 22:28:36 <veltas      > !konilo hello
2025-04-03 22:28:37 <konilo-bot  > Hello, veltas! Welcome to Konilo-over-IRC.
2025-04-03 22:28:53 <veltas      > !konilo #1 #2 n:add n:put
2025-04-03 22:28:59 <veltas      > konilo-bot: #1 #2 n:add n:put
2025-04-03 22:29:05 <veltas      > #1 #2 n:add n:put
2025-04-03 22:31:21 <veltas      > !konilo hello
2025-04-03 22:31:21 <konilo-bot  > Hello, veltas! Welcome to Konilo-over-IRC.
2025-04-03 22:31:23 <veltas      > hello
2025-04-03 22:31:37 <veltas      > !konilo #1 n:put
2025-04-03 22:31:49 <veltas      > konilo-bot: #1 n:put
2025-04-03 22:36:55 <cleobuline  > forth:  " un violon  " IMAGE
2025-04-03 22:39:17 <cleobuline  > forth:  " un violon  " IMAGE
2025-04-03 22:42:50 <veltas      > Bots are on strike
2025-04-03 23:00:44 <cleobuline  > mforth:   " un monstre affreux avec des poils partout des gros yeux et des longues dents " IMAGE
2025-04-03 23:00:58 <mforth      > https://i.ibb.co/qYpzwRx5/mforth-image-Xz-B6y-P.png
2025-04-03 23:01:20 <cleobuline  > au secours !
2025-04-03 23:02:51 <crc         > veltas: !konilo hello  to start a session
2025-04-03 23:03:25 <cleobuline  > mforth:  LOAD "test.fth"
2025-04-03 23:03:25 <crc         > it'll setup a user and then send you a private message for interaction
2025-04-03 23:03:46 <cleobuline  > !konilo hello  to start a session
2025-04-03 23:03:47 <konilo-bot  > Hello, cleobuline! Welcome to Konilo-over-IRC.
2025-04-03 23:04:13 <crc         > (I'll probably set up a shared session for use in-channel, but haven't done this yet)
2025-04-03 23:05:20 <cleobuline  > why a new grammar ?
2025-04-03 23:06:37 <crc         > cleobuline: it's the latest of my forth dialect, developed over the last two decades. I moved away from the standard a ling time ago, to build something that fit me better.
2025-04-03 23:06:59 <cleobuline  > ha bon
2025-04-03 23:09:01 <cleobuline  > crc now i try to do a hashtable for the dictionnary si mforth will be faster
2025-04-03 23:10:00 <cleobuline  > i have some primitive to to setup CONSTANT DOES ...
2025-04-03 23:10:53 <cleobuline  > now the dictionnary of mforth is extensible a l'infini
2025-04-03 23:10:54 <crc         > I tried the standard forth route (retro9 was capable of running as an ANSI system, via a loadable vocabulary), but this ultimately felt like a dead end; I preferred the ability to experiment and build something I could be happy using
2025-04-03 23:11:52 <cleobuline  > i like playing to code
2025-04-03 23:12:24 <cleobuline  > next i do assembly mforth :)
2025-04-03 23:12:59 <cleobuline  > with ulimited precision
2025-04-03 23:14:11 <cleobuline  > so i will be rich and popular
2025-04-03 23:14:45 <crc         > 
ACTION doesn't know many people who have made money from forth

2025-04-03 23:15:09 <cleobuline  > 99   of people does'nt know wat id forth :)
2025-04-03 23:15:42 <crc         > I'm not going to get rich or popular from forth, but it does serve me well and I do get to use it at work :)
2025-04-03 23:16:12 <cleobuline  > my first forth programm was on comodore 64 with a cartrige
2025-04-03 23:17:08 <cleobuline  > forth was my second langage after basic
2025-04-03 23:18:19 <cleobuline  > so i am 66 years old and i steel like to play with this langage
2025-04-03 23:19:09 <cleobuline  > still
2025-04-03 23:19:37 <cleobuline  > sorry i'm bad in english
2025-04-03 23:19:48 <crc         > No worries on the english
2025-04-03 23:21:01 <cleobuline  > i did a assembly forth on macintosh 20 years ago , ti init cellular automata
2025-04-03 23:21:16 <cleobuline  > it was working well
2025-04-03 23:21:25 <cleobuline  > i will redo
2025-04-03 23:21:50 <cleobuline  > for the sport :)
2025-04-03 23:21:55 <crc         > I'll be 42 this year, been using Forth since 1998, and working on my own systems since 1999.
2025-04-03 23:22:24 <cleobuline  > ha you are passionated i see
2025-04-03 23:23:08 <cleobuline  > do you know that the init process was writen in forth on mac ppc ?
2025-04-03 23:24:06 <crc         > Yes, in open firmware
2025-04-03 23:24:14 <cleobuline  > yes
2025-04-03 23:24:24 <cleobuline  > i have play with it
2025-04-03 23:24:27 <crc         > 
ACTION likes open firmware

2025-04-03 23:25:01 <crc         > it's been over a decade since I last used it; I don't have any systems with it now
2025-04-03 23:27:58 <cleobuline  > crc you will become rich and popular
2025-04-03 23:28:29 <cleobuline  > :)
2025-04-03 23:28:38 <cleobuline  > mforth:  WORDS
2025-04-03 23:28:39 <mforth      > USERNAME .S . + - * / MOD DUP DROP SWAP OVER ROT >R R> R@ = < > AND OR NOT XOR & | ^ ~ << >> CR EMIT VARIABLE @ ! +! DO LOOP I WORDS LOAD CREATE ALLOT ." CLOCK BEGIN WHILE REPEAT AGAIN SQRT UNLOOP +LOOP PICK CLEAR-STACK PRINT NUM-TO-BIN PRIME? FORGET STRING " 2DROP IMAGE TEMP-IMAGE DOUBLE FACT POW FIBONACCI COUNTDOWN TUCK SUM_SQUARE CUBE SUM_CUBES RECUNACCI CAT :D PGCD FPRIME? FPRIME2? SEED COUNT
2025-04-03 23:29:19 <cleobuline  > each user have his own stack and dictionnary
2025-04-03 23:29:46 <cleobuline  > i have to create a word to store words created
2025-04-03 23:30:55 <cleobuline  > next job :)
2025-04-03 23:31:19 <cleobuline  > mforth:  2 TRIPLE
2025-04-03 23:31:35 <cleobuline  > mforth:  .
2025-04-03 23:31:35 <mforth      > 6
2025-04-03 23:32:17 <cleobuline  > mforth:  MACRON
2025-04-03 23:32:17 <mforth      > Macron est un saint homme !
2025-04-03 23:33:43 <crc         > Per-user stacks & dictionary is good
2025-04-03 23:33:56 <cleobuline  > it's funny to have a langage on irc crc
2025-04-03 23:34:29 <crc         > 
ACTION can't do WORDS in konilo; it doesn't save word names

2025-04-03 23:34:53 <cleobuline  > mforth:  SEE EURO
2025-04-03 23:34:53 <mforth      > : EURO INIT-RANDOM 50 INIT-NUMS 50 SHUFFLE-NUMS 5 0 DO PICK-NUM DUP NUM-TO-STR 32 EMIT DROP LOOP INIT-STARS SHUFFLE-STARS PICK-STAR DUP NUM-TO-STR 32 EMIT DROP PICK-STAR DUP NUM-TO-STR DROP CR ;
2025-04-03 23:35:21 <crc         > I've had a private system accessable via IRC a few times in the past
2025-04-03 23:36:05 <crc         > It's not as useful to me as a local system
2025-04-03 23:36:12 <cleobuline  > ok
2025-04-03 23:37:59 <crc         > (the network overhead makes it more complicated and error prone, and irc client limitations make some things using escape sequences difficult or impossible)
2025-04-03 23:38:05 <cleobuline  > i was here one year ago , and i said "it shoud be nic to do a forth bot" someone reply "do it !"
2025-04-03 23:38:24 <cleobuline  > so y get the challenge yo real
2025-04-03 23:38:48 <cleobuline  > :)
2025-04-03 23:39:42 <cleobuline  > tomorrow i do modif to recreate words if exist