2025-04-07 09:15:02 <veltas      > Have you noticed how bad software is often named after something nice to look at, like Vista or Horizon?
2025-04-07 13:18:53 <szilard_    > Hi. I am looking for the simplest microcontroller capabel to run an interactive forth version (simplest means shortest BOM). Can you recommend me something?
2025-04-07 13:50:51 <M-Sci       > szilard_: Could be STM32C0.
2025-04-07 13:54:07 <M-Sci       > Even the BlackPill could be a fit for such vague and opposing requirements.
2025-04-07 14:41:35 <szilard_    > I'd like to eliminate all the non-vita lcomponents and build the simplest board capable to host an interactive forth. Ideally it should have a UART TX/RX pin and some GPIO. USB connector not needed if the programming can be done using a programmer/flasher.
2025-04-07 14:42:29 <szilard_    > The best would be an off-the-shelf microcntroller chip which doesn't ned anything else, and the PCB is basically meant for mecahnical rigidity and for connecting the chip to the world.
2025-04-07 14:42:56 <szilard_    > BlackPill itself is way too big, I will however research some STM32 minimal boards.
2025-04-07 15:22:44 <xentrac     > szilard_: yeah, you can definitely use a bare 6-pin microcontroller
2025-04-07 15:27:13 <xentrac     > to trim the BOM you want one that doesn't need external crystals, bypass caps, RAM, boot SPI Flash, EEPROM, voltage regulators, or power-on reset
2025-04-07 15:29:10 <xentrac     > nobody is going to recommend that you run their microcontroller without bypassing but I've had good luck with AVRs there.  generally, CMOS, low power consumption, and low speed will tend to favor less need for bypassing
2025-04-07 15:29:54 <szilard_    > Xenrrac: exactly. Also it needs to have a ready-made forth implementation, as i am too bad with programming ... Still.
2025-04-07 15:32:00 <xentrac     > oh, that makes the problem a lot more challenging
2025-04-07 15:33:14 <xentrac     > Digi-Key has a lot of 8-pin parts but almost no 6-pin ones: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/embedded/microcontrollers/685?s=N4IgjCBcpgTAnBaIDGUBmBDANgZwKYA0IA9lANoiwBs1ArAOx0jEIDM8ADM6-B4iyp948ACyD2I6hLGcwDGaM6weIBtQAcNVQlHVYnRUx1jEGxfBoW68C%2Bpl1u53o40KXnLg8-uhdUfYAusQADgAuUCAAymEATgCWAHYA5iAAvsQAtLBQoGiQcQCuRKQUIMyBGSCZtsj5RSVkkJQQlVXSyPEAJpGZYMqC4ZGCYQCeIfiRXbhoaWlAA
2025-04-07 15:35:12 <xentrac     > what are you planning to power it from?
2025-04-07 15:36:12 <veltas      > szilard_: Do share if you get anywhere with this, sounds interesting
2025-04-07 15:37:04 <xentrac     > I feel like a CR2032 coin cell might count toward your BOM, and so might a mini-USB connector
2025-04-07 15:38:50 <xentrac     > there are a bunch of AVR Forths but I don't know which one to recommend: https://github.com/isrlabs/avr-forth http://krue.net/avrforth/ https://github.com/xcporter/ymir https://sourceforge.net/projects/avrforthlike/files/ http://www.ram-tech.co.uk/avr.htm though not all of these are interactive
2025-04-07 15:41:06 <xentrac     > likewise PIC: https://sourceforge.net/projects/picoforth-alpha/files/ https://flashforth.com/ https://rfc1149.net/devel/picforth.html http://www.ram-tech.co.uk/picmicro.htm
2025-04-07 15:56:42 <szilard_    > It seems Mecrisp-Stellantis supports LPC1114FN28, LPC1114FBD48 and LPC1115FBD48 on a breadboard. This seems to be a 1 chip solution.
2025-04-07 15:57:48 <xentrac     > what's their pricing?  also, don't those chips require not one but two external voltage regulators?
2025-04-07 16:00:11 <xentrac     > I may be confusing my LPC1100s in my mind
2025-04-07 16:04:54 <szilard_    > it seems one can even saw it to size: https://fukuno.jig.jp/465
2025-04-07 18:54:25 <MrMobius    > szilard_: lpc1114 is a neat chip but it's been out of production for years in case that makes a difference
2025-04-07 18:54:56 <MrMobius    > and you can program it with an FT232 or similar cable which also does serial
2025-04-07 18:55:04 <xentrac     > hahaha
2025-04-07 18:55:23 <xentrac     > I didn't need those pins anyway
2025-04-07 18:59:41 <xentrac     > also though if you don't care how many pins are on your chip maybe you'd be better off just using an ATMega328PU, which I'm pretty confident there are interactive Forths for
2025-04-07 19:00:32 <xentrac     > (and I was misremembering the LPC1114: it runs off a single 3.3V supply.  which means you can run it off a CR2032 but not off USB)
2025-04-07 19:01:44 <veltas      > My Milk-V Duo S has arrived
2025-04-07 19:01:50 <veltas      > Chinese malware: uploaded
2025-04-07 19:03:17 <MrMobius    > right, cant run the lpc1114 off USB but you can run it from the ft232 type cable you need to program it which provides about 70ma or regulated 3.3v
2025-04-07 19:09:34 <cleobuline  > mforth:  20000 DELAY ." top " CR
2025-04-07 19:09:44 <cleobuline  > mforth:  WORDS
2025-04-07 19:09:52 <cleobuline  > mforth:  QUIT
2025-04-07 19:09:52 <mforth      > Operation impossible cleobuline essayez plus tard
2025-04-07 19:09:54 <mforth      > top
2025-04-07 19:09:54 <mforth      > USERNAME .S . + - * / MOD DUP DROP SWAP OVER ROT >R R> R@ = < > AND OR NOT XOR & | ^ ~ << >> CR EMIT VARIABLE @ ! +! DO LOOP I WORDS LOAD CREATE ALLOT ." CLOCK BEGIN WHILE REPEAT AGAIN SQRT UNLOOP +LOOP PICK CLEAR-STACK PRINT NUM-TO-BIN PRIME? FORGET STRING " 2DROP IMAGE TEMP-IMAGE CLEAR-STRINGS DELAY EXIT
2025-04-07 19:10:50 <cleobuline  > add a lock for quit
2025-04-07 19:10:50 <cleobuline  > add enqueued intructions
2025-04-07 19:11:45 <cleobuline  > add threading on interpret
2025-04-07 19:12:59 <cleobuline  > you can free the environment with QUIT only if interpret finish
2025-04-07 19:13:54 <cleobuline  > it may be more responsive  with multi users
2025-04-07 19:14:39 <cleobuline  > next i will do a chrinking of the used memory
2025-04-07 19:16:26 <cleobuline  > now i'm not sure that switching the environment will work in all the cases
2025-04-07 20:38:04 <veltas      > cleobuline: Have you done any Project Euler in this?
2025-04-07 20:51:11 <xentrac     > you could run a 3.3V thing like an LPC1114 off a USB cable with two series silicon junction diodes or one series LED
2025-04-07 20:51:48 <xentrac     > but if you're trying to go for the bare minimum BOM, a microcontroller, series LED, and USB connector is 50% more parts than a microcontroller and USB connector
2025-04-07 20:53:27 <xentrac     > if you wanted to go for the bare minimum *cost* BOM you probably want something like the PFS122-S08, which will happily run off 5 volts and only costs 4.65¢ https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Microcontrollers-MCU-MPU-SOC_PADAUK-Tech-PFS122-S08_C3646910.html
2025-04-07 20:53:43 <xentrac     > but that's a little *too* small for an interactive Forth
2025-04-07 20:54:34 <xentrac     > I mean you could have a Forth text interpreter with an operand stack in memory but you probably couldn't define new words because AFAIK it can't reprogram its own Flash
2025-04-07 20:56:55 <xentrac     > for less than twice the price, 8.71¢, you can get a 32-bit ARM PY32: https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Microcontrollers-MCU-MPU-SOC_PUYA-PY32F002BD15S6TU_C7469097.html
2025-04-07 20:57:15 <xentrac     > and the CH32V003 is almost as cheap if you want RISC-V