2025-04-08 13:45:06 <[bot]konilo > Konilo via IRC
2025-04-08 14:35:26 <KipIngram   > xentrac: Yes - given the spectrum of parts available these days, it just doesn't make sense to me to try to use the very very lowest cost ones and then struggle to have enough resources to make a system work.  When for just a couple more bucks you can easily give yourself plenty of breathing room.
2025-04-08 14:36:21 <KipIngram   > I think the only time it makes sense to try to use the really rock bottom stuff is if you're thinking the thing you make is going to be mass-produced in huge numbers.  Then those pennies add up.  Otherwise... make life easy.
2025-04-08 14:36:59 <MrMobius    > you probably also don't want to go with an off the wall part like padauk since tooling isn't usually that good. last I checked, there was only a Chinese datssheet
2025-04-08 14:37:20 <MrMobius    > but it does satisfy the minimal cost requirement!
2025-04-08 14:38:00 <KipIngram   > That's a good point too - access to tools also can make life easy.  Though sometimes I just like the idea of seeing how little I can get by with.  Or at least I like thinking about it.
2025-04-08 14:39:05 <MrMobius    > I think I would only consider a part like that if I was going to do a bunch of projects with it
2025-04-08 14:39:26 <MrMobius    > The pennies you save are canceled out by the engineering time lost which is expensive
2025-04-08 14:40:04 <MrMobius    > but once you get used to it, the lost time is a sunk cost. I think this is why stuff like 8051 has hung on so long
2025-04-08 14:40:11 <KipIngram   > Well, it would depend on how massive "mass" was in that sentence, but yeah - reuse means more copies.
2025-04-08 16:50:53 <nmz         > doing project euler on forth is a PITA considering you're usually dealing with BIGNUMs though
2025-04-08 17:20:17 <KipIngram   > I swear, the way ChatGPT can just circle the same rabbit holes endlessly is quite amazing.  It's remarkable how stupid it can seem in certain situations.  If you ask it about something thoroughly standard, it seems fine for  passing mainstream ideas you might not be familiar with to you.  But if you get even a little bit "off to the side," it seems utterly incapable of staying focused on your
2025-04-08 17:20:19 <KipIngram   > particular requirements.
2025-04-08 17:21:09 <KipIngram   > You can ask something, and it will say "X might work."  "No, X is no good because of ..."  "Ok, how about Y?"  "No, that's no good because of ..."  "Ah, how about X?"
2025-04-08 17:21:28 <nmz         > welp
2025-04-08 17:21:32 <nmz         > that keeps you employed
2025-04-08 17:21:40 <KipIngram   > Indeed.  :-)
2025-04-08 17:21:59 <KipIngram   > It's a little scary that there are people out there actually trusting these things to help them with things they can't vet themselves.
2025-04-08 17:22:21 <KipIngram   > Because they can make an utterly wrong thing sound quite wonderful.
2025-04-08 17:23:02 <KipIngram   > What I find it useful for, though, is just bringing to my attention things I wasn't previously specifically familiar with.
2025-04-08 17:23:17 <nmz         > I've never used gpt, I stick to copilot
2025-04-08 17:23:28 <KipIngram   > Haven't tried that one.
2025-04-08 17:23:32 <nmz         > but I noticed that internet search is just awful nowadays
2025-04-08 17:23:48 <nmz         > https://copilot.microsoft.com/
2025-04-08 17:24:15 <nmz         > but I'm not doing anything complicated either, like people writing an entire program in claude
2025-04-08 17:24:21 <KipIngram   > I use a little 5V, 30W power supply in a project I made recently, and I'm interested in using it again in something new.  But 30W is really more than I need, so I thought maybe I could save a few dollars.  So I asked it to suggest parts I could consider.  That wound up being a rabbit hole.
2025-04-08 17:25:18 <nmz         > oh my
2025-04-08 17:25:45 <KipIngram   > Yeah, I'll probably just re-use the same one.  It's fine, and it's not THAT expensive.
2025-04-08 17:26:20 <KipIngram   > And the extra $$$ are probably paying for more than just unnecessary watts.
2025-04-08 17:26:28 <KipIngram   > It has really good isolation, for example.
2025-04-08 17:26:57 <nmz         > so it definitely needs friends
2025-04-08 17:27:08 <KipIngram   > lmao
2025-04-08 17:27:27 <KipIngram   > Yeah; I'll introduce it to a nice sexy Raspberry Pi.
2025-04-08 18:00:30 <xentrac     > KipIngram: I was thinking that for 8¢ more thn the very very lowest cost ones you can easily give yourself plenty of breathing room.  the PY32F002B has 24KiB of Flash and 3KiB of RAM, which is plenty for an interactive Forth if it supports in-application programming, which I think it does
2025-04-08 18:02:00 <xentrac     > Padauk has English datasheets for their parts, and their datasheets are a lot more comprehensive than datasheets for more complex parts
2025-04-08 18:03:12 <xentrac     > (such as the PY32)
2025-04-08 18:03:39 <xentrac     > don't get me wrong; both Padauk and Puya do publish Chinese datasheets if you want them
2025-04-08 18:12:00 <xentrac     > I haven't actually tried Puya
2025-04-08 18:12:10 <xentrac     > 's or Padauk's chips
2025-04-08 18:15:13 <xentrac     > other people's experiences with PY32 include https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-n7vXHAqm8 https://jaycarlson.net/2023/02/04/the-cheapest-flash-microcontroller-you-can-buy-is-actually-an-arm-cortex-m0/ https://hackaday.io/project/196643-canta-cart
2025-04-08 23:01:54 <cleobuline  > toto:  TUTU @ .
2025-04-08 23:33:33 <cleobuline  > new version of mforth with multithreading  accept concurent request
2025-04-08 23:36:19 <zozo        > mforth:  20000 DELAY  ." TOP  ! "
2025-04-08 23:36:30 <cleobuline  > mforth:  WORDS
2025-04-08 23:36:30 <mforth      > USERNAME .S . + - * / MOD DUP DROP SWAP OVER ROT >R R> R@ = < > AND OR NOT XOR & | ^ ~ << >> CR EMIT VARIABLE @ ! +! DO LOOP I WORDS LOAD CREATE ALLOT ." CLOCK BEGIN WHILE REPEAT AGAIN SQRT UNLOOP +LOOP PICK CLEAR-STACK PRINT NUM-TO-BIN PRIME? FORGET STRING " 2DROP IMAGE TEMP-IMAGE CLEAR-STRINGS DELAY EXIT MICRO MILLI
2025-04-08 23:36:39 <mforth      > TOP  !
2025-04-08 23:36:47 <cleobuline  > it works :)
2025-04-08 23:37:20 <cleobuline  > users are not blocked by other user
2025-04-08 23:54:43 <veltas      > nmz: That's what cleobuline's Forth does, it's all bignums
2025-04-08 23:55:21 <veltas      > Very nice cleobuline
2025-04-08 23:55:25 <cleobuline  > now it is multi threaded veltas
2025-04-08 23:56:06 <veltas      > That's why I said "very nice" :P
2025-04-08 23:56:24 <veltas      > Are you using pthreads?
2025-04-08 23:56:34 <cleobuline  > yes
2025-04-08 23:58:24 <cleobuline  > add EXIT to kill all environments and the bot
2025-04-08 23:58:36 <cleobuline  > mforth:  EXIT
2025-04-08 23:58:36 <mforth      > Bot shutting down...
2025-04-08 23:58:57 <cleobuline  > no need control c