2025-04-14 02:07:06 <xentrac     > yeah, I feel like the Forth outer interpreter is pretty closely analogous to the Unix shell in a lot of ways
2025-04-14 02:08:31 <xentrac     > it's a unified user interface for all kinds of different domain-specific utility programs which may be written in the same interpreter or may be written in a lower-level language for efficiency
2025-04-14 02:08:47 <xentrac     > so cal seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do
2025-04-14 02:10:52 <xentrac     > also, maybe sort of by coincidence, both of them are mostly "point-free programming", which is to say, you don't name inputs and outputs to functions, but just compose them together
2025-04-14 07:21:26 <lisbeths    > so I been trying to make a forth and I've ended up making more of a register machine https://github.com/memesmith0/calculator/blob/main/smallcalculator.c
2025-04-14 07:21:32 <deadmarshal_> Is there a pattern matching example like functional langs in Forth? that would be interesting
2025-04-14 07:21:53 <lisbeths    > forth can be used to bootstrap a pattern matching interface
2025-04-14 07:22:07 <lisbeths    > most forth programers don't work with lots of text they are usually working with microcontrollers that control machines
2025-04-14 07:22:23 <deadmarshal_> right
2025-04-14 13:14:08 <anthk_      > 
ACTION it's trying a jupiter ace emulator

2025-04-14 13:14:35 <xentrac     > lisbeths: hmm
2025-04-14 13:15:46 <xentrac     > lisbeths: I'm tempted to read 'n' and 'p' as 'car' and 'cdr'
2025-04-14 13:16:12 <lisbeths    > n is for number and p is for pointer
2025-04-14 13:18:50 <xentrac     > deadmarshal_: though Forth was inspired by Lisp I don't remember ever seeing anyone do that kind of symbolic computation in it.  the closest I've seen is that vdupras wrote a sort of Lisp interpreter
2025-04-14 13:19:53 <vdupras     > xentrac: Lisp compiler!
2025-04-14 13:20:02 <xentrac     > apologies, yes!
2025-04-14 13:20:06 <xentrac     > Lisp compiler
2025-04-14 13:20:08 <vdupras     > :)
2025-04-14 13:20:58 <xentrac     > there isn't maybe an inherent reason that you need garbage collection for pattern-matching
2025-04-14 13:23:07 <vdupras     > in Dusk, the text parsing part of the work is mostly done in a scratchpad, a buffer of a fixed size that rolls over. But I do use my implementation of Lisp's cons, which are garbage collected, for AST storage. pretty handy
2025-04-14 13:23:41 <xentrac     > but I feel like you do at least need dynamic scoping for pattern matching.  which is doable.  recursive static scoping is maybe better
2025-04-14 13:24:28 <xentrac     > ASTs work pretty well with arena/pool allocation, FWIW
2025-04-14 13:25:31 <xentrac     > it's almost as convenient as GC and easier to implement efficiently
2025-04-14 13:26:10 <vdupras     > yes, it would too. I use arenas a lot in dusk, but my cons API is more convenient for ASTs and they happen to be GCed
2025-04-14 13:26:56 <xentrac     > I didn't realize that; I probably should dig into DuskOS more
2025-04-14 13:27:24 <xentrac     > I've often wondered how far you can get with symbolic computation using the Zork Z-Machine tree structure
2025-04-14 13:29:05 <xentrac     > where each object has a parent pointer, a next-sibling pointer, and a first-child pointer, as well as some properties, and the fundamental structural operation is to reparent an object elsewhere in the (single) tree
2025-04-14 13:29:42 <xentrac     > just on the basis that I like things that can't fail, and that reparenting operation can't fail
2025-04-14 13:32:30 <xentrac     > but the obvious ways to use it for that involve having a "free list" parent whose children you steal, and it can run out of children
2025-04-14 13:37:58 <veltas      > Got to love a 700 line program with 17 lines of code
2025-04-14 13:38:10 <xentrac     > heh
2025-04-14 13:38:18 <veltas      > I do respect GPL though
2025-04-14 13:38:45 <xentrac     > I was tempted to say "this program is just the GPL" but then I finally scrolled down to the program itself
2025-04-14 13:39:39 <xentrac     > but then it still wasn't very clear what it was expressing
2025-04-14 13:40:16 <veltas      > I agree that it's like car and cdr, that's what I thought too, and I have written very little Lisp
2025-04-14 13:41:33 <veltas      > I approve of using printable opcodes
2025-04-14 13:42:38 <xentrac     > I feel like an example session would probably make the program a lot more comprehensible
2025-04-14 13:52:00 <xentrac     > I'm tempted to mention `dc`
2025-04-14 14:32:20 <deadmarshal_> Lisp compiler in Forth is great :D
2025-04-14 14:33:03 <deadmarshal_> If you put all the stuff in the dictionary I think it'll get freed when program exits, so It acts like an arena
2025-04-14 14:34:44 <deadmarshal_> One thing I don't understand about Forth is that if dictionary holds both words definitions and data, it probably means they are interspered in between each other.  doesn't the memory gets fragmented?
2025-04-14 14:38:49 <veltas      > The allocation model is pretty much a stack, so you do indeed end up with wasted memory sometimes
2025-04-14 14:39:28 <veltas      > When you 'forget' a word or call a MARKER, you remove everything that was allocated since the thing you're removing
2025-04-14 14:49:56 <deadmarshal_> right
2025-04-14 14:52:14 <veltas      > You can save memory anyway with creativity, but it's tradeoffs all the way down
2025-04-14 14:53:32 <vdupras     > it's of course possible to design a dictionary API that doesn't fundamentally leak memory, but that API will be specific to each forth
2025-04-14 14:54:11 <xentrac     > deadmarshal_: while in theory you could allocate space for your AST nodes using :noname or equivalent, it's probably better to use a separate heap for them
2025-04-14 14:55:28 <deadmarshal_> yes heap would be easier
2025-04-14 14:57:48 <xentrac     > I don't think you understood what I said
2025-04-14 14:59:40 <xentrac     > the dictionary is a sort of a heap.  an arena is another sort of a heap, or maybe the same sort.  a malloc/free free list that permits reuse of deallocated memory is another sort of a heap.  it's probably better to use a *separate* heap for AST nodes, i.e., a heap that isn't the dictionary
2025-04-14 15:01:17 <xentrac     > is that clearer?
2025-04-14 15:08:44 <veltas      > I don't personally consider the dictionary to be a 'heap', I would just say it's another stack
2025-04-14 15:09:26 <veltas      > And I think if you call it a 'heap' you will probably confuse people
2025-04-14 15:13:22 <deadmarshal_> can we call it a heap that is used like a stack then? :|
2025-04-14 15:14:32 <identity    > looks like a pile to me
2025-04-14 15:41:51 <xentrac     > veltas: I think I did
2025-04-14 16:03:35 <cleobuline  > mforth:  CREDIT
2025-04-14 16:03:35 <mforth      > Brought  to you by Cleobuline https://github.com/cleobuline/forth-bot-gmp-irc-threaded-multi-users/tree/main Site https://labynet.fr
2025-04-14 16:14:58 <xentrac     > mforth: CRÉDIT
2025-04-14 16:14:58 <mforth      > Unknown word: CRÉDIT
2025-04-14 16:20:11 <cleobuline  > xentrac:  you need to LOAD "test.fth"
2025-04-14 16:20:54 <xentrac     > mforth: LOAD "test.fth"  CRÉDIT
2025-04-14 16:21:09 <cleobuline  > lol
2025-04-14 16:24:12 <cleobuline  > mforth:  HELLO
2025-04-14 16:24:12 <mforth      > Hello cleobuline How are uou ?
2025-04-14 16:24:46 <cleobuline  > mforth: LOAD "test.fth"  CRÉDIT
2025-04-14 16:25:28 <cleobuline  > it does not interpret words after LOAD  , yet it's CREDIT
2025-04-14 16:26:12 <xentrac     > mforth: CRÉDIT
2025-04-14 16:26:12 <mforth      > Unknown word: CRÉDIT
2025-04-14 16:26:29 <cleobuline  > lol
2025-04-14 16:26:36 <cleobuline  > mforth:  CREDIT
2025-04-14 16:26:36 <mforth      > Brought  to you by Cleobuline https://github.com/cleobuline/forth-bot-gmp-irc-threaded-multi-users/tree/main Site https://labynet.fr
2025-04-14 16:27:15 <xentrac     > does it still have the bug where one line of input can produce many lines of output?
2025-04-14 16:27:32 <cleobuline  > this is not a bug
2025-04-14 16:27:43 <xentrac     > mforth: 1 dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup . dup .
2025-04-14 16:27:44 <mforth      > Unknown word: dup
2025-04-14 16:27:58 <cleobuline  > that DUP
2025-04-14 16:28:05 <xentrac     > hmm, I think it's a bug in the sense that it causes the bot to have undesirable behavior
2025-04-14 16:28:16 <xentrac     > mforth: 1 DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP . DUP .
2025-04-14 16:28:16 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:16 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:16 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:17 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:17 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:18 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:18 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:19 <mforth      > 1
2025-04-14 16:28:38 <cleobuline  > this not a bug
2025-04-14 16:29:58 <cleobuline  > if you do  : test 1000000 DO I . LOOP ; it will spam  , that the responsability of the user
2025-04-14 16:31:04 <cleobuline  > why  trying to spam with the bot ?
2025-04-14 16:31:58 <xentrac     > I think it's important for the bot to not do that because sometimes people will do it by accident
2025-04-14 16:32:21 <cleobuline  > mforth:  EXIT
2025-04-14 16:32:21 <mforth      > Bot shutting down...
2025-04-14 16:32:37 <cleobuline  > that's the remède
2025-04-14 16:33:11 <cleobuline  > the great soluce
2025-04-14 16:34:53 <cleobuline  > xentrac:   type LOAD "test.fh"  then type HELLO please
2025-04-14 16:34:59 <identity    > i mean, it's /your/ bot, so it's also /your/ responsibility to make sure it doesn't flood the channel, isn't it?
2025-04-14 16:35:43 <cleobuline  > i can't control the use of the bot , but anyone can type EXIT
2025-04-14 16:36:10 <cleobuline  > mforth:  LOAD "test.fth"
2025-04-14 16:36:21 <cleobuline  > mforth:  WORDS
2025-04-14 16:36:32 <cleobuline  > lol
2025-04-14 16:36:34 <identity    > you can't control the use of the bot, but you can put safeguards in place so obvious bad things don't happen
2025-04-14 16:36:45 <veltas      > The fact you can do it by accident easily is a reason to change it
2025-04-14 16:36:52 <cleobuline  > mforth:  EXIT
2025-04-14 16:37:12 <cleobuline  > it's dead
2025-04-14 16:37:40 <xentrac     > :-(
2025-04-14 16:37:50 <xentrac     > 
ACTION leaves flowers

2025-04-14 16:38:20 <cleobuline  > mforth:  LOAD "test.fth"
2025-04-14 16:38:29 <cleobuline  > mforth:  WORDS
2025-04-14 16:38:43 <cleobuline  > there is a bug some where :(
2025-04-14 16:40:05 <cleobuline  > mforth: WORDS
2025-04-14 16:40:11 <cleobuline  > it's dead
2025-04-14 16:42:55 <cleobuline  > mforth: WORDS
2025-04-14 16:43:14 <cleobuline  > it doe not want to wrk here
2025-04-14 16:43:26 <cleobuline  > mforth:  1 DUP .S
2025-04-14 16:43:43 <cleobuline  > did someone mute it ?
2025-04-14 16:44:05 <xentrac     > nope
2025-04-14 16:44:07 <cleobuline  > anyway
2025-04-14 16:44:31 <xentrac     > /mode ##forth +q shows nobody is quieted
2025-04-14 16:46:02 <cleobuline  > it works on my irc server not there
2025-04-14 16:48:31 <veltas      > It's stuck in the shadow realm
2025-04-14 16:50:52 <cleobuline  > maybe
2025-04-14 16:53:16 <cleobuline  > xentrac:  you kill my bot with your experimentations :(
2025-04-14 16:53:43 <cleobuline  > you must use it en "Bon père de famille"
2025-04-14 16:56:46 <cleobuline  > now i thing it is shadowban
2025-04-14 16:56:48 <xentrac     > aw :-(
2025-04-14 16:56:53 <xentrac     > oh no!
2025-04-14 16:57:03 <cleobuline  > yes
2025-04-14 16:59:38 <cleobuline  > it's yout fault xentrac
2025-04-14 17:00:14 <cleobuline  > with your diabolics experiments
2025-04-14 17:01:25 <cleobuline  > i don't care it works on labynet.fr where is not any contraints
2025-04-14 17:03:56 <xentrac     > I hope it recovers soon
2025-04-14 17:04:52 <cleobuline  > i will work to enqueue the bot response with a irc thread  so  it will have best response time
2025-04-14 17:05:51 <cleobuline  > may be add the username to response too
2025-04-14 17:08:32 <cleobuline  > now there is still a risk of inter-locking if many users send request in the same time
2025-04-14 19:04:15 <cleobuline  > mforth:  WORDS
2025-04-14 19:04:33 <cleobuline  > il est toujours shadowban le pauvre
2025-04-14 19:18:03 <cleobuline  > mforth:  WORDS
2025-04-14 19:18:04 <mforth      > USERNAME .S . + - * / MOD DUP DROP SWAP OVER ROT >R R> R@ = < > AND OR NOT XOR & | ^ ~ << >> CR EMIT VARIABLE @ ! +! DO LOOP I WORDS LOAD CREATE ALLOT ." CLOCK BEGIN WHILE REPEAT AGAIN SQRT UNLOOP +LOOP PICK CLEAR-STACK PRINT NUM-TO-BIN PRIME? FORGET STRING " 2DROP IMAGE TEMP-IMAGE CLEAR-STRINGS DELAY EXIT MICRO MILLI
2025-04-14 19:18:12 <cleobuline  > it's back !
2025-04-14 19:19:26 <cleobuline  > labynet.fr :)
2025-04-14 19:19:38 <cleobuline  > the best web radio in the world
2025-04-14 19:20:01 <cleobuline  > with many experimentals IA bots
2025-04-14 19:21:25 <cleobuline  > mforth: MICRO 10000 DELAY MICRO SWAP - .
2025-04-14 19:21:35 <mforth      > 10000115
2025-04-14 19:43:43 <[bot]konilo > Konilo via IRC
2025-04-14 21:28:43 <anthk_      > mforth: 2 SQRT .s
2025-04-14 21:28:43 <mforth      > Unknown word: .s
2025-04-14 21:28:51 <anthk_      > mforth: 2 SQRT .S
2025-04-14 21:28:52 <mforth      > <2> 1 1
2025-04-14 21:29:32 <anthk_      > mforth: 2drop
2025-04-14 21:29:32 <mforth      > Unknown word: 2drop
2025-04-14 21:29:36 <anthk_      > mforth: 2DROP
2025-04-14 21:37:22 <vulpine     > mforth: 1 SQRT .S
2025-04-14 21:37:23 <mforth      > <1> 1
2025-04-14 21:38:11 <cleobuline  > mforth:  LOAD "test.fth"
2025-04-14 21:39:54 <cleobuline  > mforth:  1 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 23 31 * * * * * * * * PRIME-FACTORS .S
2025-04-14 21:39:54 <mforth      > Unknown word: PRIME-FACTORS
2025-04-14 21:39:54 <mforth      > <2> 1 363993630
2025-04-14 21:41:47 <cleobuline  > mforth:  LOAD "test22.fth"
2025-04-14 21:41:47 <mforth      > Error: Error: LOAD: Cannot open file 'test22.fth'
2025-04-14 21:41:54 <cleobuline  > mforth:  LOAD "test2.fth"
2025-04-14 21:41:58 <cleobuline  > mforth:  1 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 23 31 * * * * * * * * PRIME-FACTORS .S
2025-04-14 21:41:58 <mforth      > 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 23 31
2025-04-14 21:42:31 <cleobuline  > mforth:  CLEAR-STACK
2025-04-14 21:50:55 <cleobuline  > mforth:   1234567 PRIME-FACTORS
2025-04-14 21:50:55 <mforth      > 127 9721
2025-04-14 23:34:07 <pgimeno     > anthk_: try out https://codeberg.org/pgimeno/JAForth if you aim at coding for the Juppy :)
2025-04-14 23:53:13 <anthk_      > ah, thanks, zesarux ran too slow on my netbook
2025-04-14 23:53:56 <anthk_      > well, is not interactive
2025-04-14 23:54:45 <anthk_      > uh, Pedro Gimeno, where did I see that name
2025-04-14 23:54:48 <anthk_      > ZX Spectrum maybe?
2025-04-14 23:55:38 <anthk_      > ah, indeed
2025-04-14 23:58:14 <anthk_      > on zesarux, it emulates the ACE in my netbook at glacial speeds
2025-04-14 23:59:55 <anthk_      > there are xace and so on but they fail to build with odd cmake errors. Still, everything but graphics and I/O  might run nearly as is on  8-16 bit forths