2023-11-26 00:46:06 <KipIngram   > Good grief - in this video I'm watching the woman is pronouncing "automata" as "auto-MA-ta" and I'm just cringing every time.  :-(
2023-11-26 00:55:36 <user51      > It's not auto-mada? :P
2023-11-26 01:54:11 <KipIngram   > I've only ever heard it pronounced "aw-TAH-muh-tuh.  With the stress of the second syllable.
2023-11-26 01:55:16 <KipIngram   > But you know, I was in my 50's before I figured out that "aluminium" is actually right in the UK.
2023-11-26 01:56:10 <KipIngram   > And apparentLy "maths" is very common there too.
2023-11-26 01:56:39 <KipIngram   > I think that's actually catching on here too these days, but up until a few years ago in America you'd here either "math" or "mathematics."
2023-11-26 01:56:53 <KipIngram   > UGH.
2023-11-26 01:56:55 <KipIngram   > HEAR.
2023-11-26 02:00:30 <KipIngram   > This is one of Saturday Night Live's more hilarious skits:
2023-11-26 02:00:32 <KipIngram   > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJEAGd1bQuc
2023-11-26 04:16:38 <veltas      > I think we can all agree that 'mathetic' is wrong
2023-11-26 04:16:56 <veltas      > And 'mathematic' rather
2023-11-26 04:17:39 <veltas      > KipIngram: aw-tom-etter is how I pronounce it and have heard British unis pronounce it
2023-11-26 04:18:05 <veltas      > awe-tom-ehtter
2023-11-26 04:18:38 <veltas      > Like automate awe-tom-ate
2023-11-26 04:22:04 <veltas      > Older British pronunciation of many words replaces 'a' with 'e' almost, now only people in their 90's who went to public school speak like this. The late Queen spoke this way.
2023-11-26 04:24:14 <veltas      > Like "I saw a cat", "I saw eh ket"
2023-11-26 04:26:36 <KipIngram   > Which syllable do you put the stress on/
2023-11-26 04:26:38 <KipIngram   > ?
2023-11-26 04:38:28 <veltas      > None(?)
2023-11-26 04:38:40 <veltas      > Certainly not the one she did
2023-11-26 05:11:52 <gordonjcp   > KipIngram: also you need to remember that there's no such thing as a "British accent"
2023-11-26 09:01:57 <veltas      > Yeah Britain has probably the same if not more diversity of accents that the entire USA has
2023-11-26 09:10:18 <gordonjcp   > veltas: where I grew up, people a few miles away didn't even speak with the same dialect, never mind accent
2023-11-26 09:26:43 <KipIngram   > gordonjcp:  I'd certainly not think that all British folks "sound the same."
2023-11-26 09:27:04 <KipIngram   > But I do think there are accents that "sound British."  As in, more than one.
2023-11-26 11:07:24 <veltas      > I don't know if it was Welsh they were speaking but I do love Welsh, even though Welsh people don't seem to like me too much
2023-11-26 11:09:13 <thrig       > my grandmother said a scottish lass couldn't be in the WAAF because nobody could understand her
2023-11-26 11:09:17 <veltas      > My wife is part Welsh and has tried learning a bit of it, her Grandma was Welsh and would telephone her relatives once a week in Welsh
2023-11-26 11:39:00 <KipIngram   > I do find the way some British women talk very appealing.  I think it likely started with Elizabeth Hurley.
2023-11-26 13:43:29 <gordonjcp   > pretty much no-one figures out my accent
2023-11-26 13:43:45 <gordonjcp   > down south in Glasgow everyone thinks I'm either English or posh
2023-11-26 14:15:45 <KipIngram   > Mine's been muddied up quite a lot too.  I grew up in Alabama, and of course didn't realize at the time I had any pronounced accent.  But now I hear the difference when I talk to my mom or sister, who still live there.  friends noted it when I came to Texas to start college.  I ran into one of them by chance many years later and he even commented on how different I sounded compared to college.
2023-11-26 14:16:47 <thrig       > my dad can change his accent, so when being followed in moldova (he was in the foreign service) he would speak english with a brogue to a colleage
2023-11-26 14:16:48 <KipIngram   > There were a couple of words in particular that my first wife needled me about until I learned to say them differently.
2023-11-26 14:17:09 <KipIngram   > One of them was "on," which Alabamians tend to pronounce as "own."
2023-11-26 14:17:26 <KipIngram   > I can't quite remember what the other one was right now.
2023-11-26 14:21:02 <KipIngram   > So, I think I'm going to start this C program off with the ability to edit an actual blks.dat file right from the start.  And build my basic file system into it.  I'll set up files "source" and  "image" right off the bat.  And then start working on compiling source into image.
2023-11-26 14:21:27 <Zarutian_iPad> I been accused of over enounciation but that is just an artifact of how Icelanders speak english. It is the only consistent way to be understood clearly by other non native speakers of english.
2023-11-26 14:22:04 <KipIngram   > I think there's nothing wrong with clear enunciation.  It certainly strikes me as how one should begin using a new language.
2023-11-26 14:22:46 <KipIngram   > then you'd likely pick up the common elisions naturally as you gained more experience.
2023-11-26 14:24:03 <Zarutian_iPad> it is 'ust 'at engliss ha' two many accents
2023-11-26 14:25:15 <Zarutian_iPad> try this on some Bostonian: Erin owns an iron urn.
2023-11-26 14:26:12 <KipIngram   > I think "California dialect" has become the "primary" American accent, due to showing up in so many TV shows and movies.
2023-11-26 15:25:00 <KipIngram   > You know, I think the biggest improvement they could add to this reMarkable electronic paper would be links.  Let you draw a boundary around some part of your page to make it a "thing," and then let you assign a link to another document, or page in document, or whatever.
2023-11-26 15:25:12 <KipIngram   > Seems like that ought to be an easy thing to support.
2023-11-26 15:25:50 <KipIngram   > And I can't help noticing how similar that is to what I want to do with links in a Forth file system.
2023-11-26 15:26:29 <KipIngram   > Actually the link shouldn't be to a document or a document page - it should be to another entity stored somewhere else.
2023-11-26 15:26:49 <KipIngram   > Another "arbitrary region" somewhere.
2023-11-26 15:33:21 <KipIngram   > Thinking about it because of this video:
2023-11-26 15:33:27 <KipIngram   > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifYuvgXZ108&list=RDCMUC_QIfHvN9auy2CoOdSfMWDw&index=27
2023-11-26 15:34:41 <KipIngram   > I like the somewhat esoteric topics this "Strange Loop" conference seems to cater too.
2023-11-26 15:34:47 <KipIngram   > Lot of creative ideas.
2023-11-26 15:35:34 <KipIngram   > This guy is talking about ideas that probably are in  play in Geogebra.
2023-11-26 15:42:07 <KipIngram   > I saw an interesting one last night that talked about using "retro" computing technology.  Nine years ago this guy started living on a boat.  He had a small solar panel and some modest battery bank, and that had to cover his daily electricity needs.  He found out right quick that the computing resources he was accustomed to were just not going to fit in that budget.
2023-11-26 15:42:18 <KipIngram   > So he started trying to figure out what he *could* do.
2023-11-26 15:43:40 <KipIngram   > And one interesting discovery he made is that even if you emulate old computing tools on a relatively modern computer, it still consumes a lot less power than the swanky modern tools do.  Like, he ran an early Macintosh image editing program, and found that to be more power economical than running Gimp on the same computer.
2023-11-26 15:44:13 <MrMobius    > thats awesome
2023-11-26 15:44:22 <KipIngram   > He also noted that those old tools are "frozen" in time now - they're not constantly being updated and changed, so as long as you have an environment that will run them you can never lose access to your old data.
2023-11-26 15:44:40 <MrMobius    > with something like qemu, its converting to native code anyway so not so surprising
2023-11-26 15:44:51 <KipIngram   > His computing lifestyle was somewhat more primitive than I think I'd really want to live with, but I liked the general principle.
2023-11-26 15:45:16 <KipIngram   > Right.  I don't find it surprising, but I just hadn't given it any thought before.
2023-11-26 15:45:30 <KipIngram   > It was pleasant to see it confirmed.
2023-11-26 15:46:14 <KipIngram   > He was pretty extreme about it all - kind of one of these "back to nature" kind of folks.  Which is further than I think I'd want to go.  But like I said, it's a nice concept.
2023-11-26 15:46:34 <KipIngram   > And hey, if we wind up having a social meltdown, he'll be all set.
2023-11-26 15:46:49 <MrMobius    > hehe ya pretty cool
2023-11-26 15:50:43 <KipIngram   > He talked about several highly virtualized tools.  Apparently wa back when, around when the Amiga came out (this is how I came to read about that last night), a college kid somewhere wrote a game called "Another World."
2023-11-26 15:51:09 <KipIngram   > It was a pretty low-tech video game, but he built it completel y from the level of a simple 29 instruction virtual machine.
2023-11-26 15:51:44 <GeDaMo      > https://fabiensanglard.net/anotherWorld_code_review/index.php
2023-11-26 15:51:46 <KipIngram   > A handful of the instructions were fairly powerful.  Like there was a "play music" instruction, and a few that did fairly sophisticated drawing operations.
2023-11-26 15:52:04 <GeDaMo      > «"Another World" Code Review»
2023-11-26 15:52:09 <KipIngram   > But most of them were the kind of things we think of as "primitives."
2023-11-26 15:52:29 <KipIngram   > Yes, that's the same article i read.
2023-11-26 15:53:01 <KipIngram   > The drawing instructions consume a lot of opcode space - you could embed parameters right into the "opcode.'
2023-11-26 15:53:23 <KipIngram   > I'm thinking of doing something like that for "nearby calls" in this new system of mine.
2023-11-26 15:54:13 <KipIngram   > There would only be a small amount of parameter space, so it will only be able to reach a relatively local region around the calling point.
2023-11-26 15:54:25 <KipIngram   > But I figure that's right where a lot of my "helper words" will be.
2023-11-26 15:54:53 <KipIngram   > That's my hope, at least.
2023-11-26 15:55:26 <KipIngram   > So that way a local call will take just one byte of code space, instead of "the rest of my cell."
2023-11-26 15:55:58 <KipIngram   > I don't want the code size to blow up just because I'm running definitions instead of primitives.
2023-11-26 16:12:34 <Zarutian_iPad> KipIngram: have you thought of using instruction set modes? basically the mode becomes part of the Program Status Word (IBM 390 vernicular)
2023-11-26 16:13:10 <Zarutian_iPad> PSW contains alsothe Instruction Pointer or Program Counter
2023-11-26 16:14:12 <Zarutian_iPad> that way you can have much bigger range of possible ops whilist not gaving huge opcode fields
2023-11-26 16:14:22 <KipIngram   > Yes, in certain ways.  I'm intending to eventually have a mode where a subset of the instructions will become "type sensitive."
2023-11-26 16:14:42 <KipIngram   > Whereas in the "native" mode all instructions will be quite standard Forth style functionality.
2023-11-26 16:15:45 <KipIngram   > I think those are fairly natural categories - some words, like swap and dup and over and so on, will always do the same thing regardless of what the stack item "means."  But words like + and - and * and so on could be very different, depending on what was being operated on.
2023-11-26 16:15:52 <Zarutian_iPad> btw the psw is what gets saved to the returnstack and such
2023-11-26 16:16:33 <KipIngram   > Yes, I haven't sussed through all the details on how to manage that mode flexibility - seems reasonable to me that it would be saved and restored on calls.
2023-11-26 16:17:38 <KipIngram   > I was also trying to preserve compactness by considering that - I'd like for those primitive operations to be representable by opcodes instead of calls, even if a more complex item is their target.
2023-11-26 16:18:00 <Zarutian_iPad> which means you could have mode change achived by fiddling with the saved psw on the returnstack
2023-11-26 16:18:10 <KipIngram   > I've got a feeling this system may wind up being VERY compact if it all goes the way I'm hoping it will.
2023-11-26 16:18:16 <KipIngram   > Right.
2023-11-26 16:22:24 <KipIngram   > I'll implement those modes by replacing the virtual instruction jump table.  So in native mode it'll just be a direct simple jump table; no overhead created by the mere existence of the other mode.  When I turn the mode on, it will use a different jump table and those type-dependent instructions will get an extra level in the table.  The usual instruction jump followed by a "type jump."
2023-11-26 16:22:43 <KipIngram   > So, a bit of overhead, but not an extreme amount.
2023-11-26 16:31:18 <KipIngram   > Now this video and the earlier thought about Geogebra has me thinking.  It feels to me like there's some spreadsheet-like functionality buried in there somewhere too.  In Geogebra you can create these "sliders" that let you adjust some parameter, and something drawn somewhere else gets changed based on that value.
2023-11-26 16:31:33 <KipIngram   > You can drag the slider, or you can drag the adjustable thing directly - in either case both move in unison.
2023-11-26 16:32:04 <KipIngram   > So there's a connection between them that's a little reminiscent of connections between spreadsheet cells (though spreadsheet relations are usually one-way).
2023-11-26 16:32:40 <KipIngram   > I'm picturing some data structure that represents all of the "quantities," with links to the various graphical elements that get drawn, can be moved, and so on.
2023-11-26 16:33:46 <KipIngram   > In what I'm picturing the "input" would be whatever you'd most recently manipulated, and all of the other representations would be outputs and would track the input.
2023-11-26 16:34:00 <KipIngram   > A little like the SOLVE program on calculators.
2023-11-26 16:34:28 <KipIngram   > It knows which quantity you most recently entered, and will hold it fixed and compute the others to comply.
2023-11-26 16:38:28 <KipIngram   > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umSuLpjFUf8&list=RDCMUC_QIfHvN9auy2CoOdSfMWDw&index=9
2023-11-26 16:39:23 <KipIngram   > ^^ "Concatenative Programming and Stack-Based Languages" ^^
2023-11-26 16:43:30 <MrMobius    > KipIngram: oddly, contraining your self to little systems like that can make you more creative I have found
2023-11-26 16:45:34 <thrig       > poetry or music can also be helped by restrictive settings (sonnet form, sonata form)
2023-11-26 16:49:37 <veltas      > When I was single I'd drive into the country to program, just take offline material to work with
2023-11-26 16:49:46 <veltas      > Program or learn emacs or something
2023-11-26 16:49:53 <veltas      > I leaned emacs this way
2023-11-26 16:49:55 <veltas      > learned*
2023-11-26 19:00:21 <KipIngram   > I agree MrMobius.  It puts you under pressure to find better, smarter solutions.
2023-11-26 21:45:34 <KipIngram   > You know, it occurs to me than when "communities" (social, economic, whatever) were small, there was little point in trying to "market ideas."  You tried to find the best ways you could of doing your own work.  Sure, you  might talk to people about it, and I'm sure it felt good if they were impressed.  But the main payoff of you working that way was the impact it had on YOUR PERSONAL WORK.  If it made you
2023-11-26 21:45:36 <KipIngram   > more productive, you won.  But we are not small anymore, and these days you can get FAR  more "bang" from your ideas by getting "other folks" to adopt them - you then are in a position to set yourself up as a "founder," and you can write books and give talks and get famous, and the $$$ follow - far far beyond your own mere personal productivity.
2023-11-26 21:45:42 <KipIngram   > I think we were better off when things were the first way.
2023-11-26 21:46:53 <KipIngram   > In the modern environment you're not really doing the same kind of work that preciptiated your idea in the first place anymore.  You become an author/speaker/influencer in stead of a "producer."
2023-11-26 21:52:42 <thrig       > seo spam and the ruination of it all
2023-11-26 23:24:46 <KipIngram   > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxdOUGdseq4&list=RDCMUC_QIfHvN9auy2CoOdSfMWDw&index=11
2023-11-26 23:25:03 <KipIngram   > ^^ Simple Made Easy ^^
2023-11-26 23:25:52 <KipIngram   > I couldn't help but laugh when he equated relying on the test team to catch your bugs with relying on the guard rails to guide your car.