2023-12-17 04:09:46 <slacko_user13052> @KipIngram - The Ancint North Eurasian group appears to be the originator of a lot of this stuff.
2023-12-17 04:12:48 <slacko_user13052> Which is pretty crazy because they were apparenty living in siber during the last glacial maximum ~24000 years ago.
2023-12-17 04:13:08 <slacko_user13052> *siberia
2023-12-17 04:14:29 <user51      > That's a long time ago.  I bet they only had ones and zeroes :)
2023-12-17 04:14:46 <slacko_user13052> heh
2023-12-17 04:17:09 <slacko_user13052> Apparently a good story has the ability to survive in some form or another indefinitely. I don't really know how else to interpret these timescales.
2023-12-17 07:32:30 <KipIngram   > it had just never occurred to me that we could do the same thing with those storie that we do with DNA.  But now that it has my attention it's pretty obvious.
2023-12-17 07:32:56 <KipIngram   > I guess it's not quite as rigorous, since some judgement is involved in deciding how to "genetify" a story.
2023-12-17 07:33:09 <KipIngram   > Whereas there's little doubt about base pairs.
2023-12-17 08:07:09 <slacko_user13052> Well, the fundamental issue of estimating what is a mutation from/to what or original looks like a pretty direct mapping.
2023-12-17 08:09:57 <KipIngram   > I think Ancient Northern Eurasian is a genetic deliniation, whereas PIE is a languge related breakdown.  Slightly different source data.  They probably overlapped to some extent, given they're markers of different types.  I don't think we know for sure what language the ANEs used.
2023-12-17 08:10:36 <slacko_user13052> But the issue of rigore is a real bugbear even within pure mathematics, so if you exapnd your scope to a superset that technically includes all human creations/knowledge, I think you end up with something pretty unresolvable.
2023-12-17 08:12:14 <slacko_user13052> Yes, ANE's are a genetic delineation. They are associated with the myth of cerberus as well as certain amerindian myths via some studies comparing genetic links and mythemes iirc.
2023-12-17 08:13:16 <KipIngram   > Yeah, it's hard to be precise about.  The area they trace these mythologies back to in a lot of cases is around the Pontic-Caspian steppes.
2023-12-17 08:13:30 <KipIngram   > Not quite full on ANE territory, but not awfully far from it.
2023-12-17 08:14:12 <slacko_user13052> Yeah, you have strong ANE lineage in those people and regions, but you can;t make a definitive argument.
2023-12-17 08:14:45 <KipIngram   > I guess to some extent it's a matter of exactly when these things happened, since all of those people's came up out of Africa initially anyway.  They just didn't have these myths formed when they did - they formed later after they'd migrated further north.
2023-12-17 08:16:47 <slacko_user13052> Well, maybe. Out of africa was a good initial theory, but it is beginning to look like the story may be more complex, or that the origin point of humanity m could be underwater somwhere, perhaps in Africa, perhaps somewhere else.
2023-12-17 08:16:48 <KipIngram   > Well, there is some mythology that came  out of Africa - he taked about at least one myth that seems to have.  I forget now which one it was.
2023-12-17 08:18:05 <KipIngram   > No one I've listned to has cast any significant doubt on African origins, about 75,000 years ago, but it doesn't shock me that at least someone oout there would have a different theory.
2023-12-17 08:18:23 <KipIngram   > Out of Africa still feels like it's hte "mainstream" to me, based on what I've watched.
2023-12-17 08:18:32 <slacko_user13052> it definitley is
2023-12-17 08:18:56 <slacko_user13052> I was just commenting on the lack of progress, re:missing links and so on
2023-12-17 08:19:35 <KipIngram   > yeah, there were people who wanted to do a larger genetic study of indigenous peoples around the world, but for some reason that idea came under criticism.
2023-12-17 08:19:46 <slacko_user13052> huh
2023-12-17 08:20:01 <KipIngram   > There were apparently people who worried the data would be used in 'racist ways."
2023-12-17 08:20:14 <slacko_user13052> ...ok
2023-12-17 08:20:27 <KipIngram   > Yeah, that was kind of my reaction too.
2023-12-17 08:20:58 <slacko_user13052> I think the 23andme data leak is a far more real problem related to genetics data, but no one cares.
2023-12-17 08:21:02 <KipIngram   > I find the genetic patterns really interesting, but I almost find the mythology aspects more interesting, since they also reflect on the success of various cultures that have emerged.
2023-12-17 08:21:23 <KipIngram   > It's all cool, though.
2023-12-17 08:21:46 <KipIngram   > That we have the technology to know these things is fairly amazing.
2023-12-17 08:21:57 <slacko_user13052> For sure.
2023-12-17 08:22:28 <KipIngram   > When I first realized all this progress existed a couple of years ago, I was so struck that I found myself thinking 'if I were young this is what I'd want to do.'
2023-12-17 08:22:37 <KipIngram   > It's woefully late for me to be beginning a career, though.
2023-12-17 08:23:18 <KipIngram   > So I'll just content myself with being a spectator from the sidelines.
2023-12-17 08:23:36 <KipIngram   > The hungry young kids can figure it all out.  :-)
2023-12-17 08:23:43 <slacko_user13052> Well, presumably they need programmers for data rangling, but I supose they will just use other academians for such work.
2023-12-17 08:24:22 <KipIngram   > I suppose a lot of this data is available online, or will become so.  Maybe I'll play with it sometime.
2023-12-17 08:24:44 <KipIngram   > I do like seeing things for myself.
2023-12-17 08:25:40 <slacko_user13052> It could be pretty cool. I've done a fair bit of DSP stuff myself, so I often wonder what I would end up making of the various data sets being used for these kinds of things.
2023-12-17 08:25:54 <KipIngram   > On an entirely different front it occurred to me once that one could probably just slap a digital camera on a tripod and take pictures of the sky (not time exposures - pictures that gave pinpoint stars) over a period of months and use those images to "validate" all kinds of astronomy science.
2023-12-17 08:26:00 <KipIngram   > that seemed like a fun project.
2023-12-17 08:26:34 <KipIngram   > I figured one could use a star catalog and "auto recognize" what each picture was, and then scrape out the way the planets moved on the background of fixed stars.
2023-12-17 08:26:46 <KipIngram   > Then use that data to calculate orbital elements.
2023-12-17 08:27:27 <slacko_user13052> It would be a fun test, to see how well things would line up.
2023-12-17 08:27:37 <KipIngram   > The hard work of "imagining what the rules are" has already been done - this would just be confirming the rules gave the right answers.
2023-12-17 08:28:32 <slacko_user13052> Yeah, sometimes you can get some not-very-publicized results when doing that sort of work.
2023-12-17 08:28:32 <KipIngram   > This little weekend trip we're on is well away from the metropolitan areas I live in; one of my daughters has a new  phone and I've been pretty amazed with the star pictures she's been taking just with that.
2023-12-17 08:28:57 <KipIngram   > so a project like that is within practically anyone's reach without new expensive equipment.
2023-12-17 08:29:33 <KipIngram   > It's just a little sad how few stars I can see from my actual home, though.
2023-12-17 08:29:52 <KipIngram   > With Houston right there muddying up the skies.
2023-12-17 08:30:31 <slacko_user13052> We get a lot of rain here, which is similarly debilitating.
2023-12-17 08:30:48 <KipIngram   > I think big cities should have some kind of a program where a few times a year they douse all the lights for some short period of time.  Just so all those millions of people can see what's actually "up there."
2023-12-17 08:31:24 <KipIngram   > Even if it was only half an hour in the middle of the night - it would still be an "event" people could mark on their calendars if they wanted to.
2023-12-17 08:31:47 <KipIngram   > But I can just hear the wailing that would result over security risks and so on.
2023-12-17 08:31:54 <KipIngram   > And I can't completely argue against that.
2023-12-17 08:32:02 <KipIngram   > There WOULD be people who tried to exploit it.
2023-12-17 08:32:31 <slacko_user13052> I think we need more, and more engaging holidays in general. They used to much more common than most people know.
2023-12-17 08:32:47 <KipIngram   > Yeah, I agree.
2023-12-17 08:33:55 <slacko_user13052> And, as far as risk goes: it's everywhere. So the fact that it exists isn't a sufficient excuse imo
2023-12-17 08:34:34 <KipIngram   > That's sort of how I look at it too.  But you knwo there would be people who would cut up if it were actually proposed.
2023-12-17 08:34:51 <KipIngram   > Some folks just like to have things to cut up over.
2023-12-17 08:35:47 <KipIngram   > At any rate, I don't hold my  breath expecting it to happen.  I'll just have to get in my car and drive away from the city if I want to see the sky well.
2023-12-17 08:37:52 <KipIngram   > We're in Fredericksburgh Texas, which is about 75 miles from both Austin and San Antonio.
2023-12-17 08:38:20 <KipIngram   > Except no h on Fredericksburg.
2023-12-17 08:38:39 <KipIngram   > Strong German component in the history here.
2023-12-17 08:38:40 <slacko_user13052> We have had a lot of cultural movement (everywhere) these past years. I used to think I had a good idea where things were going. Now, I don;t know. Hopefully we mostly get good stuff from it - maybe some new holidays could happen.
2023-12-17 08:39:33 <KipIngram   > So I've got a three hour or so drive coming today to get back home.
2023-12-17 08:40:20 <slacko_user13052> Well, better get to it ;)
2023-12-17 08:40:51 <KipIngram   > :-)  I hear motion in other parts of the house.  I'm just up first.
2023-12-17 08:41:45 <slacko_user13052> Gotcha, have a good trip.
2023-12-17 11:43:11 <Zarutian_iPad> 
ACTION sees a way to achive 640x480 pixels of 256 colours bitmap on the CommanderX16: use the tilemap in 16x16 tile 256 colour mode, use part of the 512K banked RAM as framebuffer, and do a DMA to the vera board at each half screen

2023-12-17 12:06:03 <user51      > 512K suddenly feels like a lot of memory.
2023-12-17 12:14:21 <user51      > What I said earlier might've been a bit random, but it's a reaction from reading Brad's moving forth article which recommended something about 8KB of memory or so.  512K does seem like a lot in perspective.
2023-12-17 12:48:51 <Zarutian_iPad> user51: even sram memory is cheap nowdays
2023-12-17 12:50:30 <GeDaMo      > My CPU has a 6MB L3 cache :P
2023-12-17 12:51:38 <GeDaMo      > And it's from 2009
2023-12-17 12:52:44 <Zarutian_iPad> sure, but I am refering to even Dual Inline Packaged sram meant for various stuff
2023-12-17 12:53:13 <Zarutian_iPad> like industrial control, hobby retro computers, and so on.
2023-12-17 12:54:11 <Zarutian_iPad> heck, getting to half micron precision integrated circuits in a garage fab would be nice
2023-12-17 12:55:13 <Zarutian_iPad> why? mostly because fabs like Intels and TSMC are either unavailable or flatout oversubscribed
2023-12-17 12:59:40 <user51      > GeDaMo: 2009.. then I'm guessing late Core 2 or early Core i.
2023-12-17 13:00:26 <GeDaMo      > AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 945 Processor
2023-12-17 13:01:48 <user51      > I don't think I ever had an AMD CPU.  But I'm considering a new laptop with a Ryzen.
2023-12-17 13:02:19 <user51      > That would replace my.. 2006 thinkpad.
2023-12-17 13:15:30 <Zarutian_iPad> 
ACTION is looking how to make an fat binary executable in the ELF format

2023-12-17 13:16:51 <Zarutian_iPad> basically an ecexutable that has an .text section per architecture and os supported.
2023-12-17 13:17:07 <GeDaMo      > https://justine.lol/ape.html ?
2023-12-17 13:17:49 <Zarutian_iPad> precisely what I am looking for
2023-12-17 13:18:03 <GeDaMo      > .:)
2023-12-17 13:18:52 <Zarutian_iPad> handy because the primitives in forth can be so few which means each .text section would be at most 4KibiBytes
2023-12-17 13:23:37 <Zarutian_iPad> hmm... seems only support x86?
2023-12-17 13:24:56 <GeDaMo      > I think the x86 is the base, other architectures run an emulator
2023-12-17 13:28:44 <GeDaMo      > https://github.com/jart/blink/tree/master "is a virtual machine that runs x86-64-linux programs on different operating systems and hardware architectures."
2023-12-17 17:14:01 <KipIngram   > Home now.
2023-12-17 19:11:54 <Zarutian_iPad> this ape stuff is something else
2023-12-17 19:16:48 <Zarutian_iPad> heh, it looks like it supports being a zip file too which means an ape executable can webxdc file and löve2d file
2023-12-17 19:17:57 <Zarutian_iPad> plus being a .jar and .apk
2023-12-17 19:29:26 <Zarutian_iPad> yebb looks like that insanity might be possible
2023-12-17 19:37:16 <thrig       > ... and Excel malware
2023-12-17 19:56:17 <Zarutian_iPad> an .docx file you mean?