2024-02-03 14:29:01 <vms14       > crc  did you manage to install pforth or another forth in termux?
2024-02-03 14:29:28 <vms14       > i can only install gforth, but i can't use rlwrap with it properly for some reason
2024-02-03 14:30:09 <vms14       > oh nvm, just needed the always-readline option
2024-02-03 14:44:03 <vms14       > trying to learn forth after all this time
2024-02-03 14:50:43 <vms14       > making the guess a number game as the starting forth book asks
2024-02-03 14:50:47 <vms14       > : check 2dup = if ." correct" 2drop else < if ." too high" else ." too low" then then ;
2024-02-03 14:51:03 <vms14       > : guess swap dup rot check ;
2024-02-03 14:51:47 <vms14       > you put the secret number once on the stack, guess must mantain that number
2024-02-03 14:53:47 <vms14       > i'd like to get used to forth, for now stills being hard to even manage the stack
2024-02-03 14:54:21 <vms14       > also ?stack seems to do nothing in gforth, but the word exists
2024-02-03 14:54:59 <vms14       > and it's sad it has no blocks and no editor words
2024-02-03 14:55:07 <vms14       > i wanted to play with that
2024-02-03 14:59:38 <vms14       > i suppose the check word has also to drop the secret number when it's correct
2024-02-03 15:00:03 <vms14       > check 2dup = if ." correct" 2drop drop else < if ." too high" else ." too low" then then ;
2024-02-03 15:00:40 <vms14       > funny
2024-02-03 15:17:37 <Joao003     > how do you print a newline
2024-02-03 15:18:24 <user51      > Joao003: CR should be the right word.
2024-02-03 15:18:24 <vms14       > using the word CR
2024-02-03 15:18:51 <Joao003     > thx
2024-02-03 15:18:55 <vms14       > :D
2024-02-03 15:19:02 <vms14       > have fun with newlines :D
2024-02-03 15:19:09 <user51      > vms14: That CHECK word looks a bit lengthy.. maybe factoring it into three words, LESSER GREATER EQUAL might be better.
2024-02-03 15:19:47 <vms14       > hahah then i'm glad i decided to divide guess into two words
2024-02-03 15:19:54 <Joao003     > also, how do you case your word names (snake_case, camelCase)?
2024-02-03 15:20:12 <vms14       > in my mind there were two things to do, so i made two words
2024-02-03 15:20:22 <vms14       > check the numbers and mantain numbers
2024-02-03 15:20:36 <vms14       > hhmm no idea if there is a convention
2024-02-03 15:20:37 <user51      > Joao003: depending on the forth you're using it might be case insensitive, so snake_case might be the more reliable option.
2024-02-03 15:20:57 <user51      > Joao003: But I prefer using a dash instead, EXAMPLE-WORD
2024-02-03 15:20:58 <Joao003     > or even no casing >:D
2024-02-03 15:20:59 <vms14       > https://www.forth.org/forth_style.html
2024-02-03 15:21:19 <vms14       > yeah, forthwrights like to scream in their code
2024-02-03 15:21:26 <user51      > vms14: Now you've seen one forth style  :P
2024-02-03 15:21:30 <vms14       > words are usually case insensitive
2024-02-03 15:21:39 <user51      > I use uppercase to indicate I'm talking about a forth word
2024-02-03 15:22:26 <vms14       > user51 seems to come from the starting forth book
2024-02-03 15:22:28 <user51      > Maybe it's also worth using on words like IF, BEGIN, CASE and such.
2024-02-03 15:22:36 <Joao003     > nah i'd use lowercase to indicate it's a word
2024-02-03 15:22:47 <user51      > vms14: Only on IRC, I use lowercase otherwise.
2024-02-03 15:23:09 <vms14       > i like the dots instead of dashes or underscores, no idea if most forths will accept them
2024-02-03 15:23:41 <vms14       > gforth seems to accept them
2024-02-03 15:23:58 <vms14       > : oh.my 1 2 3 ;
2024-02-03 15:24:17 <GeDaMo      > Most Forths will accept anything not a space (or whitespace) in names
2024-02-03 15:24:31 <vms14       > i prefer them, they're easier to type and make less visual noise than the other symbols
2024-02-03 15:24:32 <GeDaMo      > You should be able to use Unicode too
2024-02-03 15:24:44 <vms14       > hahaha in my toy lang you can
2024-02-03 15:24:53 <vms14       > not a good idea anyways
2024-02-03 15:24:56 <user51      > Save a LITERAL today! Use : 0 0 ; : -1 -1 ;  :P
2024-02-03 15:26:03 <GeDaMo      > https://ideone.com/ZzfV5n
2024-02-03 15:26:31 <vms14       > XD
2024-02-03 15:27:04 <vms14       > works in gforth
2024-02-03 15:27:31 <GeDaMo      > ideone uses gforth
2024-02-03 15:27:43 <vms14       > also in my lang
2024-02-03 15:27:44 <vms14       > oh
2024-02-03 15:28:04 <GeDaMo      > It says at the top right which version
2024-02-03 15:28:24 <vms14       > i'll save it then
2024-02-03 15:28:37 <Joao003     > am i the only one who likes separating the action and condition of begin ... until
2024-02-03 15:29:52 <vms14       > no idea, i'm starting to learn forth so i did not use that loop yet
2024-02-03 15:30:14 <Joao003     > ok :)
2024-02-03 15:30:23 <Joao003     > you can learn at your own pace
2024-02-03 15:33:24 <vms14       > i was supposed to learn it like a year ago, but decided to do my own concat lang instead
2024-02-03 15:33:47 <Joao003     > ?
2024-02-03 15:33:57 <vms14       > just because i liked forth so much, but forth does not usually have libraries to play with, like sockets, database, etc
2024-02-03 15:34:28 <vms14       > i wanted a forth with that stuff, but in netbsd i wasn't able to make gforth use the c bindings
2024-02-03 15:35:03 <Joao003     > you made a language?
2024-02-03 15:35:05 <vms14       > still my toy lang is so different from forth that almost nothing applies
2024-02-03 15:35:26 <vms14       > yeah, a toy rpn stack based lang using perl and relying a lot on perl
2024-02-03 15:35:37 <vms14       > not a serious language nor a difficult task
2024-02-03 15:35:57 <Joao003     > did you put it on github or something else?
2024-02-03 15:36:10 <vms14       > no, i keep rewriting it
2024-02-03 15:36:42 <vms14       > https://termbin.com/kq0j
2024-02-03 15:36:57 <vms14       > this is the code i have for now, it's missing some words
2024-02-03 15:37:40 <vms14       > but i always had some envy with real forth code
2024-02-03 15:37:54 <vms14       > and cried secretly cause my lang has nothing to do with a real forth
2024-02-03 15:37:58 <vms14       > :D
2024-02-03 15:38:21 <vms14       > and in the end i have sockets and database stuff, but i do nothing with them
2024-02-03 15:38:46 <Joao003     > then why make those if you won't use them? for fun?
2024-02-03 15:39:12 <vms14       > cause i wanted forth to become my main language and do any kind of program with it
2024-02-03 15:39:32 <vms14       > but doing the stuff like i did, the language ended having to do nothing with forth
2024-02-03 15:39:40 <vms14       > it's more like a reversed lisp
2024-02-03 15:40:06 <Joao003     > like a reversed lisp without superfluous parentheses XD
2024-02-03 15:40:23 <vms14       > i know i can always use C or assembly and make a real forth implementation, but i guess for now i should just learn forth properly
2024-02-03 15:40:37 <vms14       > it has lists '(' is a word that builds a list and pushes it on the stack
2024-02-03 15:40:53 <vms14       > lists can also be evaluated as code
2024-02-03 15:41:04 <Joao003     > hmhmhmhmh strings hmhmhmhmh
2024-02-03 15:41:37 <vms14       > but the overall thing just sucks
2024-02-03 15:41:53 <vms14       > it's a toy lang after all, yet i had a lot of fun making it
2024-02-03 15:42:04 <vms14       > and learned some stuff i suppose
2024-02-03 15:42:23 <vms14       > still, the more i learn forth, the better
2024-02-03 15:42:43 <vms14       > i'm learning the basics, so i need some time before going to more advanced stuff
2024-02-03 15:43:22 <vms14       > the day i learn forth properly, if i really need X library i can always implement it
2024-02-03 15:44:10 <vms14       > i have some weird love with forth, specially i love colon words and how it encourages factoring
2024-02-03 15:44:20 <Joao003     > 
ACTION likes stack languages and will make one some time in the future

2024-02-03 15:44:57 <vms14       > i think forth would be very good as a main dev language, but the fact i can't do some stuff always turned me off
2024-02-03 15:45:23 <vms14       > still, nothing to worry as i end doing nothing even if i have that "stuff"
2024-02-03 15:46:00 <vms14       > and i have to learn forth properly so i can steal more ideas and have a more correct language
2024-02-03 15:46:08 <vms14       > that is actually useful for something
2024-02-03 15:46:46 <vms14       > i only stole the parameter stack and the sense of colon words
2024-02-03 15:47:01 <vms14       > there is not even compile time, but read time
2024-02-03 15:47:06 <Joao003     > XD
2024-02-03 15:47:08 <vms14       > it sucks
2024-02-03 16:43:06 <vms14       > lol i didn't know I and J are just general words to take copies from the return stack
2024-02-03 16:43:22 <vms14       > i thought they were special purpose words for loops
2024-02-03 16:43:57 <vms14       > but i'm reading I takes a copy from the last item on the return stack and J the same for the third item
2024-02-03 17:15:06 <crc         > vms14: I just use my forths under termux
2024-02-03 17:18:04 <crc         > I do apparently have a gforth installed in it as well, but haven't run that since last summer
2024-02-03 17:22:16 <thrig       > poor unloved gforth
2024-02-03 17:46:47 <crc         > vms14: the latest pforth builds & runs under termux without any issues
2024-02-03 17:47:43 <vms14       > i use andronix which gives you a fake chrooted debian so you can use the debian repo and apt install stuff
2024-02-03 17:48:20 <vms14       > but pforth didn't show up, i took a .deb but i have to update libc
2024-02-03 17:48:56 <vms14       > anyways don't worry as the problem was with gforth and rlwrap, but i just needed to add -a as argument to rlwrap and now works fine
2024-02-03 17:49:46 <vms14       > since i use the phone's keyboard which is the same as a blackberry i don't have the arrow keys and i need vi mode
2024-02-03 17:50:46 <vms14       > now everything is fine, except that gforth does not seem to have some words like ?stack
2024-02-03 17:50:58 <vms14       > well the word exists, but seems to do nothing
2024-02-03 17:52:23 <crc         > I just use straight termux; haven't really tried andronix or similar chroot stuff yet.
2024-02-03 23:13:10 <vms14       > i feel like learning to program from the first time
2024-02-03 23:13:16 <vms14       > for*
2024-02-03 23:13:25 <vms14       > : box ( width height - ) 0 do dup dup dup mod 0= if cr then stars loop drop ;
2024-02-03 23:13:36 <vms14       > i wonder if i really need those dups
2024-02-03 23:13:53 <vms14       > it just prints a box with asterisks
2024-02-03 23:14:46 <Joao[3]     > x mod x always equals 0
2024-02-03 23:15:25 <vms14       > right wth
2024-02-03 23:15:33 <vms14       > why does even work
2024-02-03 23:19:17 <vms14       > https://ideone.com/BJHRsD
2024-02-03 23:20:15 <vms14       > i was supposed to use I there
2024-02-03 23:21:43 <zelgomer    > vms14> i feel like learning to program from the first time  -- agree, that's how i felt, too, and i was skeptical for a long time. still am, to some degree. but i think this is a good sign you're going to learn a new way of thinking about things
2024-02-03 23:22:31 <Joao[3]     > why is the code on stars spaced sooooo much
2024-02-03 23:22:52 <zelgomer    > though having said that, i'm not sold on forth's do/loop/i/j stuff and tend to not implement it
2024-02-03 23:23:55 <vms14       > i don't understand why that code is working
2024-02-03 23:24:08 <vms14       > it shouldn't
2024-02-03 23:24:11 <vms14       > wtf
2024-02-03 23:24:30 <vms14       > Joao[3] it was a newline
2024-02-03 23:25:09 <vms14       > it was different code also, i was playing with begin again repeat etc
2024-02-03 23:25:18 <vms14       > zelgomer i had that feeling with lisp
2024-02-03 23:25:38 <vms14       > but i guess here is even bigger this feeling
2024-02-03 23:27:30 <vms14       > i keep trying to get why it does work
2024-02-03 23:29:55 <zelgomer    > describe "works"
2024-02-03 23:30:06 <zelgomer    > i think you should see a filled box of stars
2024-02-03 23:30:09 <vms14       > draws the boxes i tell it
2024-02-03 23:30:42 <vms14       > i try different numbers, keeps working fine
2024-02-03 23:31:28 <vms14       > https://ideone.com/HFTy6z
2024-02-03 23:31:40 <zelgomer    > : box  0 do cr dup stars loop drop ;  ( equivalent code )
2024-02-03 23:32:38 <Joao[3]     > no leading newline: https://paste.sh/LWzPZi-7#poBvV-GgkktrujYNLqfFHHus
2024-02-03 23:33:45 <vms14       > ah right
2024-02-03 23:34:03 <vms14       > no need for mod actually since i'm using a loop on stars
2024-02-03 23:34:04 <vms14       > ty
2024-02-03 23:34:09 <Joao[3]     > also it's better practice to use .( *) instead of 42 emit
2024-02-03 23:34:14 <vms14       > that's why it worked
2024-02-03 23:35:37 <vms14       > hahaha
2024-02-03 23:35:55 <vms14       > that's why i say it feels like learning for the first time
2024-02-03 23:36:02 <vms14       > i have no idea of what i'm doing
2024-02-03 23:36:17 <vms14       > i need to make those exercises so i get used to it
2024-02-03 23:38:35 <vms14       > .( wasn't a compile time print?
2024-02-03 23:38:43 <vms14       > i guess you meant ."
2024-02-03 23:40:12 <Joao[3]     > yeah fixed: https://paste.sh/LWzPZi-7#poBvV-GgkktrujYNLqfFHHus
2024-02-03 23:41:40 <vms14       > i like 42 emit cause it shows what is really the answer of life
2024-02-03 23:41:55 <vms14       > only forthwrights do know the real answer
2024-02-03 23:42:09 <Joao[3]     > XD
2024-02-03 23:42:17 <vms14       > it's an asterisk, which kind of makes sense if you think about shell metacharacters
2024-02-03 23:42:24 <vms14       > * means everything
2024-02-03 23:43:17 <zelgomer    > very meta