2024-02-21 18:57:16 <veltas      > zelgomer: I don't think I read your question properly last time, I think I'd probably choose the word you used 'unlink'. That has a more specific meaning
2024-02-21 19:11:26 <zelgomer    > unlink was my first thought, too. but i decided it better to stay away from that because it could be confused for the unix system call
2024-02-21 19:12:12 <zelgomer    > i might still use it, i don't know. for now, i've already switched to scrub, and i like it
2024-02-21 19:24:01 <veltas      > I'd sort of expect filesystem stuff like that to be in its own wordlist/vocab
2024-02-21 19:24:45 <veltas      > Maybe UNCHAIN or something
2024-02-21 19:24:57 <veltas      > BYPASS
2024-02-21 20:12:53 <zelgomer    > true, and i don't necessarily intend to expose the posix "unlink" word. i'm just looking for unambiguity
2024-02-21 20:13:29 <thrig       > yeah... about that... human languages tend to suck there
2024-02-21 20:13:44 <zelgomer    > god damn humans
2024-02-21 20:13:54 <thrig       > they ruin everything
2024-02-21 20:14:01 <veltas      > I feel like that was one of the aims of old-school object oriented programming
2024-02-21 20:14:15 <veltas      > Like I don't care what kind of chair it is, I know I can sit() on it
2024-02-21 20:14:38 <veltas      > That doesn't mean I don't want to sit() on the floor either, I might want to
2024-02-21 20:14:45 <veltas      > I should be able to do both
2024-02-21 20:14:53 <veltas      > And not know what chair it is or where the floor is
2024-02-21 20:15:09 <thrig       > chair? that's a scratching post, says the cat
2024-02-21 20:16:39 <veltas      > And this is how they managed to gin up the C++ designers into argument-dependent lookup
2024-02-21 20:17:12 <veltas      > That and bitshift operator fetishes
2024-02-21 20:48:15 <zelgomer    > c++ people aren't real people
2024-02-21 21:04:15 <veltas      > C++'s greatest issues are social issues
2024-02-21 21:06:27 <veltas      > Probably the case with Rust as well
2024-02-21 21:07:28 <veltas      > I mean in my industry I have to use C, there's no choice. It's what all trained professionals know. Some of them know some other languages but all of them know C.
2024-02-21 21:08:27 <veltas      > And it's small enough that I can reasonably expect to train people to use it effectively and with good practices (assuming they've learned basics in uni or somewhere)
2024-02-21 21:09:44 <zelgomer    > i also work in c professionally, and in my experience, most other professional c users barely know enough c or programming in general to just make it through the day
2024-02-21 21:10:03 <dsmith      > veltas, I don't know.  I'm amazed at how many people *don't* know C.
2024-02-21 21:11:01 <veltas      > Well I mean in embedded/firmware, or do you as well?
2024-02-21 21:11:20 <dsmith      > Ah, yes. For embedded, C is *it*.
2024-02-21 21:12:14 <zelgomer    > i'm in "embedded" but that's in quotes because it's the kind where your processor is a dual core ARM and you have 8GB of memory and most people are just writing linux apps
2024-02-21 21:12:30 <thrig       > it's what passes for embedded these days
2024-02-21 21:13:37 <dsmith      > True.  But if you have custom HW you are still coding drivers in C.
2024-02-21 21:13:51 <dsmith      > That's where the fun is, anyway.
2024-02-21 21:13:57 <veltas      > zelgomer: Bootloader, drivers?
2024-02-21 21:14:27 <zelgomer    > yeah, and in that case there are a small subset of us who actually know what we're doing scattered throughout each group. the bulk of most teams are just dead weight who wish they could write python all day
2024-02-21 21:14:39 <veltas      > I've had to do all of the above at my job, KB's or GB's, embedded controllers, boot firmware, OS drivers
2024-02-21 21:15:33 <veltas      > There's a big skill and knowledge range but I just have the attitude of "some people I'm learning more from, some people I'm sharing more with"
2024-02-21 21:16:05 <veltas      > Although I don't think we tend to employ people without talent
2024-02-21 22:22:30 <zelgomer    > there probably aren't any left after my company hires all of of the talentless folks
2024-02-21 22:49:21 <Zarutian_iPad> I do not know what the topic de jure is but I might have a take that is revelant
2024-02-21 22:50:50 <zelgomer    > is it that i just admitted that i'm talentless? because you'll get no dispute from me :)
2024-02-21 22:51:05 <Zarutian_iPad> I once asked a person that was learning comp sci if they/he/she/etc would do so if they had a Star Trek replicator and an complete alloidal title to their house.
2024-02-21 22:51:32 <Zarutian_iPad> "Naah I am only in it for the money" was the response
2024-02-21 22:52:03 <Zarutian_iPad> zilch passion at all
2024-02-21 22:52:03 <zelgomer    > yeah, sounds accurate
2024-02-21 22:53:07 <Zarutian_iPad> I rather see a talentless but passionate individual do something rather than passionless talented individual
2024-02-21 22:53:52 <Zarutian_iPad> because the former can gain talent whilist the latter should just go do something else
2024-02-21 23:15:54 <thrig       > spock need not apply