2024-02-22 16:35:40 I think that "passion" comes in a spectrum. It's easier to manifest, I think, for young people nearer the beginning of their career. After decades of watching corporate bureaucracy, politics, and so on it becomes a bit hard to keep it sizzling at the same pace. I enjoy technology as much as I ever have, but I would far rather do the things I want to do, for no "commercial purposes" than go do other things 2024-02-22 16:35:42 for other people (often in ways I don't think are the most effective, but are required) - so I could be accused of just working "for the money." The minute my mortgage is paid and my youngest daughter is out of college, I will be giving serious consideration to retirement. But that in no way means I lack passion for technology. I just don't have so much passion for "the daily grind." 2024-02-22 16:36:27 Sure, I could look for something else to do. But due to the quirks of my career history, I'm being paid quite well, and I doubt I could just go out and match that very easily elsewhere. 2024-02-22 22:06:27 true. this is where i'm at. i've been smoking the competition for long enough at work (not trying to toot my own horn, but that's just the honest truth). i'm getting to the point where i wish my boss could forget how capable i am and expect less from me so that i could spend more time tinkering on my stupid side projects that are actually interesting to me. 2024-02-22 22:08:23 i work with people who still struggle with code formatting and fundamental conventions. that's not exactly very rewarding work. 2024-02-22 23:23:08 zelgomer: Automate the things, do your work faster and faster. The sky's the limit 2024-02-22 23:25:07 xkcd://1319 2024-02-22 23:25:09 that's the problem, though. when your work challenges are people problems, they cannot be automated. 2024-02-22 23:25:59 when my team spends one hour of what ends up being a two and a half hour long zoom call talking about whether to use a floats or doubles, there is no way to recover that time 2024-02-22 23:26:37 Yeah people skills are hard. Not trying to sound patronising it's just true 2024-02-22 23:27:54 or when people submit pull requests with idiotic changes like blanket search and replace all ints with uint32_t for no discernable reason, then you have to comment "hey, a lot of these were return codes that make sense being a plain old signed int", and then that turns into an unavoidable conversaion 2024-02-22 23:30:28 i know it is, i'm just saying, that can't be automated 2024-02-22 23:31:02 Are you leading this team? 2024-02-22 23:31:07 no 2024-02-22 23:31:32 i think my manager would like for me to, but there is no way in hell i want that role 2024-02-22 23:31:47 Are you able to focus on yourself and improve the codebase regardless? 2024-02-22 23:32:14 when i can get clear work items, yes. but that's also a challenge sometimes :) 2024-02-22 23:32:33 what you're alluding to is basically the role i'm trying to transition into 2024-02-22 23:32:57 again, i suspect to my manager's dismay. which is why it's a ... let's say, nuanced transition 2024-02-22 23:37:35 it's a growing experience for me, too. i'm having to learn when to shut up :) 2024-02-22 23:37:55 Please tell me what you learn, I need to know about that too :P 2024-02-22 23:39:24 I remember I told my boss I didn't want to go into management but I would if there was no better candidate. And what I mean by that really is that I don't aspire to that role at all, but I think it's worth doing it if the alternative is having a really bad manager. 2024-02-22 23:39:58 If that ever happened it would mean no more coding but ultimately my job isn't about doing what I want, it's about earning a living 2024-02-22 23:40:32 well, really, i think a big part of it, at least in my case, is recognizing when a conversation is headed toward a less than ideal solution, but it really isn't going to hurt much in the long run, so just let it go. if i speak up, then i get involved, and then something that didn't have to be my problem becomes my problem. 2024-02-22 23:40:43 there is no way i would ever do management 2024-02-22 23:40:54 if they need me as a manager, it's time to find employment elsewhere 2024-02-22 23:41:52 i wouldn't even be good at it. /I/ would be that "really bad manager alternative" you mentioned 2024-02-22 23:42:09 And there's nothing wrong with that 2024-02-22 23:42:26 I don't think I'm that good, I just think there are probably people who are worse 2024-02-22 23:42:37 And unfortunately it's the worst sorts who have that aspiration usually.... 2024-02-22 23:43:32 lol if i was a manager i would shrink the team as much as i could, i would never hire anyone, and i would try to do it all myself 2024-02-22 23:43:46 and probably work myself to death doing so 2024-02-22 23:53:01 anyway, i didn't mean to start whining about my job. the point is that lack of passion at work can be lost. but still, this isn't what Zarutian was talking about. he was talking about passion in software, and that if you don't have it, you probably don't belong in a software position professionally.