2024-04-17 00:19:36 <Quexs01     > hey baby, wanna have a good time?
2024-04-17 00:21:07 <lf94        > veltas: dope :)
2024-04-17 00:21:38 <lf94        > veltas: so you'd just change that to 6 bytes + 2 bytes for length
2024-04-17 00:21:53 <Quexs01     > hey baby, wanna have a good time?
2024-04-17 00:52:24 <lf94        > https://github.com/svofski/forth-roguelike/tree/master i find it weird a roguelike, like this, would be slow if written forth-y
2024-04-17 00:52:34 <lf94        > it seems the author did have an issue with it at the beginning
2024-04-17 05:25:13 <Al2O3       > lf94 great you read TF, indeed a wonderful book.   TIL is also a very good book to read.
2024-04-17 05:25:39 <Al2O3       > https://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Interpretive-Languages-Design-Implementation/dp/007038360X
2024-04-17 05:25:43 <Al2O3       > you can find it in PDF online.
2024-04-17 05:25:45 <Al2O3       > free.
2024-04-17 05:26:28 <Al2O3       > https://archive.org/details/R.G.LoeligerThreadedInterpretiveLanguagesTheirDesignAndImplementationByteBooks1981
2024-04-17 05:29:11 <Al2O3       > I believe at a time I had 10 or so copies of this book, and TF as well, and many other books as well.   I gave most of those 10 copies away.
2024-04-17 05:29:54 <Al2O3       > there was a time in the mid to late 90s where books like this were literally 50 cents or a dollar at abcbooks or such, ebay, craigslist, etc.
2024-04-17 05:30:14 <Al2O3       > shipping was media rate back then, not bend over rate.
2024-04-17 05:56:24 <Al2O3       > as I re-read it for the Nth time, I realize what an amazingly concise book TIL is.
2024-04-17 05:56:34 <Al2O3       > much like TIL and forth as well.
2024-04-17 08:44:08 <rendar      > there are math functions that have many parameters, all with some default value. Usually you may want to specify only 2 or 3 of them, leaving all other parameters as default. How the stack-based system of Forth solved this problem, across the decades and many Forth implementations ?
2024-04-17 09:30:40 <veltas      > rendar: I can't be that comprehensive but often an implied variable would be put in a VARIABLE like BASE
2024-04-17 09:30:50 <veltas      > Otherwise baked into the word name like 0=
2024-04-17 09:31:22 <veltas      > Some words accept different numbers of arguments depending on top values
2024-04-17 09:43:14 <rendar      > veltas, hmm, can you give me a practical example of that?
2024-04-17 12:16:40 <MrMobius    > rendar: if you mean named arguments as it's called in some languages where you can specify the height and width of a rectangle to draw but not the coordinates so it defaults to 0, 0 for example then no, you can't do that in forth
2024-04-17 12:17:21 <MrMobius    > you might create a structure in memory, use a word to fill it with default values, add your own values then pass the address of the structure
2024-04-17 12:22:46 <rendar      > i see
2024-04-17 12:23:46 <rendar      > in my forth impl. i was thinking to something like: 1.0 2.0 3.0 (main args) -5.0 $width -5.0 $height create-rect
2024-04-17 12:24:26 <rendar      > words which start with $ takes whatever there is on  the stack and put that into an hash table, so in that example you'll get: 'width':-5.0 and 'height':-5.0
2024-04-17 12:25:01 <rendar      > then the create-rect words will check if that options hash table will have 'width' or not, to use the user specified width or the default one
2024-04-17 12:41:00 <skvery      > rendar The same way interrupts specify more then on parameter.  Push a pointer to the parameters to the stack.
2024-04-17 12:41:07 <skvery      > *one
2024-04-17 12:41:29 <rendar      > skvery, is that similar to my solution?
2024-04-17 12:43:21 <Quexs01     > is this chat room about programming?
2024-04-17 12:44:19 <GeDaMo      > Quexs01: it's about the programming language Forth
2024-04-17 12:49:15 <crc         > rendar: I've dabbled with using variables to pass in some data, as in http://forth.works/share/VznYe475bM.txt
2024-04-17 12:50:22 <rendar      > crc, that's interesting, is that a your Forth version?
2024-04-17 12:50:31 <crc         > For most purposes that may benefit from this, I'm more likely to do as MrMobius suggests and create a structure with default values and pass a pointer to it
2024-04-17 12:50:53 <crc         > rendar: yes, that's from one of my blocks in my konilo system
2024-04-17 12:53:06 <rendar      > interesting, so every word which starts with !<str> pop from stack and saves that variable has str->var, and @<str> does the opposite, reads str->var and push into the stack
2024-04-17 12:54:14 <Quexs01     > GeDaMo i see
2024-04-17 12:56:34 <GeDaMo      > Quexs01: are you interested in Forth? Or do you have a more general programming question?
2024-04-17 12:57:44 <crc         > rendar: yes, those are sigils for quick variable access
2024-04-17 12:58:00 <rendar      > crc, interesting! thanks
2024-04-17 13:09:16 <Quexs01     > GeDaMo
2024-04-17 13:09:33 <GeDaMo      > Quexs01
2024-04-17 13:09:46 <Quexs01     > i am interested about adolf hitler and how ango establishment treats him like a whore
2024-04-17 13:09:55 <GeDaMo      > :|
2024-04-17 13:09:55 <Quexs01     > anglo*
2024-04-17 13:10:00 <Quexs01     > yeah
2024-04-17 13:10:03 <Quexs01     > fuck you
2024-04-17 13:10:22 <GeDaMo      > crc
2024-04-17 13:23:17 <olle        > Yikes
2024-04-17 13:31:39 <lf94        > > then no, you can't do that in forth
2024-04-17 13:31:42 <lf94        > come on now ;)
2024-04-17 13:31:54 <lf94        > named parameters are definitely possible in forth.
2024-04-17 13:32:02 <lf94        > just not naturally given
2024-04-17 13:32:44 <lf94        > 3 height 4 width 0 0 rect
2024-04-17 13:32:55 <lf94        > I'm sure this could be used to create some sort of structure
2024-04-17 13:33:00 <lf94        > whoops
2024-04-17 13:33:12 <lf94        > 0 start_x 0 start_y 3 height 4 width rect
2024-04-17 13:33:31 <lf94        > this greatly complicates things, but, might be desirable
2024-04-17 13:33:53 <lf94        > "default parameters" is even more tricky like it's been said
2024-04-17 13:34:46 <lf94        > .{ 3 height , 4 width } rect
2024-04-17 13:35:03 <lf94        > then define rect to parse this structure and fill in the missing parameters within its definition
2024-04-17 13:35:26 <lf94        > veltas: come on, get on running my sha on zenv ;)
2024-04-17 13:35:33 <lf94        > i might try it on a commodore 64 forth
2024-04-17 13:35:35 <lf94        > in an emulator
2024-04-17 13:40:01 <crc         > sorry for the delay; at work currently so was away from the computer
2024-04-17 13:40:29 <GeDaMo      > crc: thanks :)
2024-04-17 13:44:35 <user51      > lf94: Sounds like partial appllcation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_application
2024-04-17 13:45:09 <user51      > But I can also see 'named parameters' being interpreted as the L-word
2024-04-17 13:45:40 <lf94        > thanks crc
2024-04-17 13:49:37 <veltas      > lf94: Sorry man super busy at the moment
2024-04-17 13:49:56 <veltas      > Unlikely to get it done, you can always do it yourself
2024-04-17 13:50:14 <veltas      > Commodore 64 Forth is a good idea too
2024-04-17 13:52:14 <lf94        > I'm poking you :) All good!
2024-04-17 14:17:41 <coyote      > mirth (https://github.com/mirth-lang/mirth), which is a higher level concat language, uses "named stacks" for named parameters, so you can have a structure "person" with "name" and "age" fields and build it like `10 >age "John Doe" >name make-person`
2024-04-17 14:18:06 <coyote      > and under the hood two stacks "name" and "age" are created and `make-person` takes from them
2024-04-17 14:25:11 <lf94        > neat
2024-04-17 14:25:34 <lf94        > oh yeah, i wanted to say
2024-04-17 14:25:55 <lf94        > when working with forth, im starting to actually appreciate not needing to think about variable names, and how things are passed all over :)
2024-04-17 14:26:14 <lf94        > i had to write the sha256 in rust while debugging; i actually found myself stuck a few times about how to name something or arrange something
2024-04-17 14:26:22 <lf94        > it was a "aha" moment for me
2024-04-17 14:31:38 <KipIngram   > Yes, the stack becomes something really appealing after a while.
2024-04-17 14:32:06 <zelgomer    > wow, i had the opposite experience. i find that i have to think of a lot more names, and struggle more to do so, in forth than i do in c
2024-04-17 14:32:19 <GeDaMo      > The stack is implicitly "it" or "the thing we are working on"
2024-04-17 14:44:17 <lf94        > yes exactly.
2024-04-17 14:44:48 <lf94        > zelgomer: could you elaborate? i find that interesting
2024-04-17 14:44:58 <veltas      > I'm guessing he means for all the factored words
2024-04-17 14:45:05 <lf94        > oh
2024-04-17 14:45:32 <lf94        > it's no harder than coming up with function names
2024-04-17 14:45:54 <lf94        > maybe he's trying to come up with too descriptive names?
2024-04-17 14:45:55 <veltas      > I find it a bit harder but every language has tradeoffs
2024-04-17 14:46:06 <veltas      > I don't think Forth is exactly 'easy'
2024-04-17 14:46:17 <lf94        > imo because forth allows numbers and stuff in the name, it opens up more possibility for names
2024-04-17 14:47:02 <veltas      > Doesn't make it easier
2024-04-17 15:34:30 <lf94        > did I miss anything
2024-04-17 15:38:30 <KipIngram   > Yeah, it's true that Forth's flexiility can be dangerous if you're undisciplined.  I guess the extreme example you sometimes see is something like : 1  17 ;  I mean, none of us would ever do that, but Forth won't stop you.
2024-04-17 15:44:58 <thrig       > might be handy for testing
2024-04-17 15:52:02 <lf94        > that's true of any language though mostly. if you want "safety" you should just go with Coq or any language which completely separates you from the machine
2024-04-17 16:38:03 <lf94        > so I think I'm going to do two games in forth
2024-04-17 16:38:12 <lf94        > one is a gamification of note taking
2024-04-17 16:38:28 <lf94        > basically you keep a pet alive by feeding it notes, and keep it happy by recalling notes with it
2024-04-17 16:38:44 <lf94        > and your pet can take visual features from other pets if you share notes with others
2024-04-17 16:38:58 <lf94        > the second game will be an fps
2024-04-17 16:40:13 <lf94        > extremely simple; players are floating spheres that have 3 weapons of infinite ammo: shotgun, laser beam and laser ball (which you can blast with laser beam)
2024-04-17 16:40:32 <lf94        > only ever 2 players
2024-04-17 16:43:16 <GeDaMo      > I like the note taker idea
2024-04-17 16:43:41 <user51      > Note to self: feed pet
2024-04-17 16:43:46 <GeDaMo      > Especially if it has cute animal imagery :P
2024-04-17 16:44:09 <lf94        > yea exactly :)
2024-04-17 16:47:54 <user51      > lf94: Make sure you can't select water bears as a pet
2024-04-17 16:48:16 <lf94        > im going to make the animal somewhat generated
2024-04-17 16:48:33 <GeDaMo      > What's wrong with water bears? :|
2024-04-17 16:50:32 <user51      > GeDaMo: They are pretty hardy -- kind of defeats the purpose of feeding it notes
2024-04-17 16:50:41 <user51      > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
2024-04-17 16:51:04 <GeDaMo      > I'm familiar with water bears :P
2024-04-17 16:53:20 <lf94        > I figured this would encourage me to take notes more often, but most importantly, not care how I format them :)
2024-04-17 16:53:48 <lf94        > recall prompts will be simple
2024-04-17 16:54:04 <lf94        > if the note is a single word: 1 to % of the word will be missing
2024-04-17 16:54:21 <lf94        > if the note is a sentence: 1 to 2 words will be missing
2024-04-17 19:42:44 <Al2O3       > "3 height 4 width 0 0 rect" feels so postscript :)
2024-04-17 19:43:12 <thrig       > postscript is a forth-like
2024-04-17 19:46:04 <Al2O3       > well aware, TY :)
2024-04-17 19:46:26 <Al2O3       > used to write drivers in PS, back in the late 80s, and early 90s.
2024-04-17 19:46:37 <Al2O3       > also PS code while doing a lot of view methods for NS/OS
2024-04-17 19:46:56 <Al2O3       > wonderful and natural to me, loved it.
2024-04-17 19:47:09 <Al2O3       > but I'm into RPN since the 41 came out.
2024-04-17 19:47:37 <Al2O3       > about late 79/80, loved that calculator, have a cx on my desktop.
2024-04-17 19:47:51 <Al2O3       > with card reader :)
2024-04-17 19:50:23 <Al2O3       > https://iili.io/J8c7Qgn.jpg
2024-04-17 19:50:49 <Al2O3       > was the upgrade from the 41C
2024-04-17 19:51:14 <Al2O3       > man, what a world that was to have that 'power' in your hands to write routines to formulas, store them on a card you could slide in and load, and all 'mobile'
2024-04-17 19:51:34 <Al2O3       > I think HP41 is still an engineers wet dream from yesteryear.
2024-04-17 20:01:38 <MrMobius    > Nah, HP42 or bust :P
2024-04-17 20:06:30 <Al2O3       > :)
2024-04-17 22:04:45 <X-Scale     > i totally love PostScript and i still plan to create a decent IDE for its development
2024-04-17 22:11:31 <GeDaMo      > X-Scale: are you going to use Display Postscript for the UI? :P
2024-04-17 23:22:01 <lispmacs[work]> X-Scale: do you have any interesting PS programs to share, link to?