2024-05-19 08:25:35 <veltas      > zelgomer: I know what you mean
2024-05-19 08:25:46 <veltas      > Should be called MOD/ really with its order
2024-05-19 10:07:24 <orylesor    > Hey. I'm Legacy at the moment but I have many names. (Transfem, it/its pronouns.)
2024-05-19 10:07:25 <orylesor    > I'm an absolute beginner, and I was wondering if there are any words in SwiftForth or Gforth that return the top of the stack without popping, or you need to define it yourself as `DUP .` ("DUP"; space; dot) Reason: just curiosity, I'm not trying to achieve anything.
2024-05-19 10:09:03 <GeDaMo      > orylesor: .s
2024-05-19 10:09:15 <GeDaMo      > That'll print the top of the stack
2024-05-19 10:10:50 <orylesor    > Thanks, but I've tried `.s` before. I was wondering if there's a word that returns TOS (top of stack) exclusively, and nothing else.
2024-05-19 10:11:15 <GeDaMo      > I don't know of a standard word that will only print the top stack item
2024-05-19 10:12:01 <orylesor    > Appreciate it! It's always difficult to figure out when something doesn't exist.
2024-05-19 10:13:37 <GeDaMo      > This is from the old Forth Standard although most implementations are unique snowflakes :P https://forth-standard.org/standard/alpha
2024-05-19 10:15:57 <orylesor    > Thanks, have a good one!
2024-05-19 11:03:23 <olle_       > 
ACTION 

2024-05-19 11:03:25 <olle_       > hm
2024-05-19 11:40:29 <olle_       > I wanted to do a Forth-like report generating DSL
2024-05-19 11:40:36 <olle_       > Little bit stuck since some data is record-like
2024-05-19 11:43:36 <olle_       > 
ACTION checking gforth structs

2024-05-19 11:47:22 <olle_       > https://paste.centos.org/view/7e644c83
2024-05-19 11:48:24 <olle_       > Including another S-expr representation: https://paste.centos.org/view/8cfbac40
2024-05-19 12:15:51 <rendar      > is it common to use '.' as a "fake" namespace terminator char? i mean, if we have words that are all of a specific argument, let's say all words about ZIP compression, is it common in Forth to have 'zip.compress', 'zip.decompress', 'zip.set-size' and so on? what you think?
2024-05-19 16:40:19 <hello-operator> rendar: That's what I do.
2024-05-19 16:40:38 <rendar      > hello-operator, you use the '.' to indicate namespaces?
2024-05-19 18:38:57 <KipIngram   > orylesor: I have a "personal convention" in my system where a . prefix on a word causes it to retain the deepest argument it would otherwise consume.  I use it a lot in conditional returns.  But applying it to the normal word . means that .. prints the TOS without dropping it.
2024-05-19 18:39:01 <KipIngram   > Very handy for debugging.
2024-05-19 18:39:19 <KipIngram   > It's not "intelligence" in the system - I just define those words per that convention.
2024-05-19 18:44:04 <olle        > 
ACTION writing a tiny forth in PHP

2024-05-19 18:48:09 <vms14       > :0
2024-05-19 18:50:54 <olle        > As long as the words can eat both from the stack and the stream, it should be possible to do some cool stuff
2024-05-19 19:00:17 <olle        > I can lessen the number of post-fix words, pre-fix is more natural for struct fields, for example
2024-05-19 19:08:00 <KipIngram   > Stream is a lot slower.
2024-05-19 19:08:41 <KipIngram   > Something like <obj> <field> <action> (which I think of as postfix) always seemed fine to me.
2024-05-19 19:09:18 <olle        > This is a DSL that must be understandable for sales people
2024-05-19 19:09:55 <olle        > But it's mostly descriptive
2024-05-19 19:22:53 <zelgomer    > veltas: not only just the name /mod, but the few times i've used it, it even seems like i usually want the remainder on top
2024-05-19 19:24:22 <zelgomer    > i would think usually you're using /mod because you want to decompose a number by multiples. e.g., converting to text. in that case, i actually want to pull out remainders incrementally, so i want the mod on top and the quotient (sort of an inverse accumulator) on bottom.
2024-05-19 19:24:34 <zelgomer    > maybe i just haven't seen enough other use cases
2024-05-19 19:28:02 <zelgomer    > unset HISTFILE
2024-05-19 19:28:21 <zelgomer    > that's not the right window for that
2024-05-19 19:35:11 <zelgomer    > anyway, like rendar, i'm also still trying to fine tune my style and conventions. i have been using the # prefix to indicate a constant represents somethings size, like the # operator from lua. e.g., 2 constant #cell. but now i've found cases where i used it to mean "the number of things", like "20 constant #ids" and the inconsistency is causing me to question the whole thing
2024-05-19 19:37:52 <GeDaMo      > Maybe you could use something like 'magnitude' for size e.g. |cell|
2024-05-19 20:04:08 <zelgomer    > or maybe i should just call it cell like everybody else does
2024-05-19 20:05:10 <zelgomer    > there have been a lot of things that i was doing differently when i started out, and over time i've found my vocabulary slowly regressing back to forth-79/83 style word names. i probably should have just not fought it in the first place.
2024-05-19 20:09:00 <GeDaMo      > I'll admit I'm not keen on too much 'punctuation' :P
2024-05-19 20:20:48 <KipIngram   > I quite like symbols.  I gravitate in that direction more often than not.
2024-05-19 20:21:33 <KipIngram   > I'm very prone toward using & | ~ ^ for and, or, not, xor.  And % instead of mod.