2024-06-13 01:14:24 <traveler    > I feel like studying mcu architecture is enough metal for me, lol
2024-06-13 01:15:06 <traveler    > There was a great Hackaday U series when I was learing about the RP2040. I
2024-06-13 01:15:11 <traveler    > 'll have to find a link.
2024-06-13 01:16:17 <traveler    > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_tws4AXg7auiZHZsL-qfrXoMiUONBB0U
2024-06-13 01:17:19 <traveler    > I do most of my work in gforth, though, so I can run it on my vps and in termux. Fun stuff.
2024-06-13 01:18:54 <traveler    > But I've had a similar dream, KipIngram. Build my own hot rod.
2024-06-13 01:24:51 <thrig       > nitrogen injected registers
2024-06-13 02:40:26 <lf94        > I should probably just start using RP2040 for everything
2024-06-13 10:04:04 <veltas      > thrig: I love that, nitrogen injected registers
2024-06-13 10:04:09 <veltas      > lf94: I know the feeling
2024-06-13 10:04:33 <veltas      > traveler: MCU's are 'enough' a lot of the time anyway
2024-06-13 11:51:11 <veltas      > I've written some code that apparently causes both strong love and strong hatred from different people
2024-06-13 11:51:38 <veltas      > I don't like getting on people's nerves, but in retrospect I need to accept this is probably some kind of win that it provokes such strong feelings
2024-06-13 12:32:42 <veltas      > My pet peeve at moment is how nobody seems to ever use rounding with integer arithmetic
2024-06-13 12:54:28 <olle        > https://github.com/olleharstedt/olleharstedt.github.io/blob/master/code/reportdsl/forthlike2.php#L18 - my tiny tiny forth-dsl in PHP :)
2024-06-13 13:54:09 <veltas      > olle: You should end it with BYE , not FORTH;
2024-06-13 13:54:14 <veltas      > Otherwise noice
2024-06-13 13:54:22 <veltas      > Or PHP
2024-06-13 13:54:46 <veltas      > Because you switch vocabs by doing e.g.  ASSEMBLER .... FORTH ... EDITOR ... FORTH
2024-06-13 13:54:52 <veltas      > So PHP would switch to PHP code
2024-06-13 13:55:43 <veltas      > Also ; conventionally means 'exit' and not 'end', if you see ; in a word name it implies it exits (i.e. returns) somehow
2024-06-13 13:58:11 <veltas      > e.g. ;CODE means 'exit and then replace most recent def at execution time with following code to execute'
2024-06-13 14:09:38 <olle        > veltas: BYE? Wish I could, that's the so called heredoc notation. :)
2024-06-13 14:10:21 <olle        > Hm hm
2024-06-13 14:17:21 <veltas      > I see
2024-06-13 15:11:38 <KipIngram   > olle: Following on to veltas's comment about the interpretation of the ; char, I have words in my system that can do conditional returns.  "Return if TOS=0," for example, is 0=;  So, like he said - just seeing ; in the name tells us it potentially involves a return.
2024-06-13 15:14:12 <olle        > KipIngram: Got it :)
2024-06-13 15:15:07 <veltas      > But yeah it sounds like there's no choice about that termination syntax, it must end with a ;
2024-06-13 15:15:11 <olle        > The FORTH; is part of PHP itself tho, not my DSL
2024-06-13 15:15:32 <veltas      > It's a heredoc like in bash if I understand right
2024-06-13 15:15:52 <olle        > Yea I think PHP just copied bash there (or Perl, if Perl already copied bash ^^ )
2024-06-13 15:16:57 <veltas      > I think PHP was originally designed to replace bash apache scripts or something
2024-06-13 15:17:06 <veltas      > Or bash httpd scripting
2024-06-13 15:17:19 <veltas      > So I'm not surprised to see bash-style stuff in there
2024-06-13 15:17:40 <veltas      > It's obviously heavily inspired by Perl as well
2024-06-13 15:20:05 <olle        > IIRC, PHP was written as a template engine to C :)
2024-06-13 15:20:16 <olle        > Then people started to write template engines inside PHP eventually, hehe.
2024-06-13 15:20:39 <olle        > veltas: PHP as a lang is very inspired by language-of-the-year
2024-06-13 15:20:44 <olle        > Its OOP is Java
2024-06-13 15:20:57 <olle        > Now people are adding FP elements to it, and also from C#, Swift, etc
2024-06-13 15:21:18 <olle        > But yea, the base is Perl-inspired, I think
2024-06-13 15:22:22 <veltas      > I can't find reference to it but I swear there was bash involved early on
2024-06-13 15:22:49 <veltas      > I see the original implementation was written in C, but I would guess bash was used for scripting before PHP with that CGI
2024-06-13 15:22:56 <veltas      > I'd have to go dig it all up
2024-06-13 15:23:21 <veltas      > Maybe it was Perl originally though, don't quote me
2024-06-13 15:26:17 <olle        > Maybe yea!
2024-06-13 15:26:28 <olle        > Should be a video talk by Rasmus about its origin
2024-06-13 15:26:30 <olle        > iirc
2024-06-13 15:31:37 <veltas      > Bash or maybe bourne shell was definitely competition at the time, even if he didn't use it himself
2024-06-13 15:33:59 <jackdaniel  > 
2024-06-13 15:33:59 <jackdaniel  > 
2024-06-13 15:34:10 <jackdaniel  > oops, nvm ^
2024-06-13 15:53:58 <lf94        > I finished all the My4th boards last night after receiving the missing components :)
2024-06-13 15:54:27 <lf94        > All the little legs on shit trimmed, inspected all solder joints again, and all tested they can add 4 8 + ...
2024-06-13 15:55:01 <lf94        > It's crazy now I have technically 5 forth computers
2024-06-13 15:55:23 <lf94        > I also discovered the SoC Rockwell R54C11AP or whatever
2024-06-13 15:55:28 <lf94        > Which is Forth on a chip
2024-06-13 15:55:41 <lf94        > Setup an ebay watcher for them
2024-06-13 15:55:56 <lf94        > Currently just one seller in china selling for $25 a pop
2024-06-13 15:56:14 <lf94        > I think I'd rather use a cheaper fpga forth computer
2024-06-13 15:58:59 <veltas      > Any project ideas?
2024-06-13 16:05:08 <lf94        > Really I just enjoy writing visual programs
2024-06-13 16:05:21 <lf94        > Particularly L-systems / cellular automata
2024-06-13 16:05:24 <veltas      > Like 2048?
2024-06-13 16:05:25 <veltas      > Okay
2024-06-13 16:05:37 <lf94        > I'm almost done turmites / langton's ant :)
2024-06-13 16:05:50 <lf94        > I'm currently using a bitmap but I might extend it to being 4 bit color
2024-06-13 16:06:12 <lf94        > It would be cool to control some system with a my4th also
2024-06-13 16:06:21 <lf94        > or get the my4th on the internet
2024-06-13 16:06:26 <lf94        > with an esp32 or similar
2024-06-13 16:06:39 <lf94        > Remember, I'm selling the other 4 My4ths :)
2024-06-13 16:06:54 <lf94        > I will ship anywhere
2024-06-13 16:07:13 <lf94        > I think after my Forth video they will be a very easy sell
2024-06-13 16:07:24 <veltas      > Today I learn what those terms (L-systems / cellular automata) mean
2024-06-13 16:07:37 <lf94        > haha! I'm surprised, I thought this was common knowledge
2024-06-13 16:07:41 <veltas      > I've seen GoL and these trees before but not heard those terms
2024-06-13 16:07:49 <lf94        > ah yea
2024-06-13 16:07:54 <veltas      > Are you in US?
2024-06-13 16:07:57 <lf94        > Canada
2024-06-13 16:08:14 <veltas      > Because a lot of terms in america that people use seem to be different to those used in other countries
2024-06-13 16:08:28 <veltas      > Mind you I never encountered these in academia anyway
2024-06-13 16:08:30 <lf94        > Nah these are well known in the realm of procedural stuff
2024-06-13 16:08:58 <veltas      > Yeah it's quite typical for americans to assume their terms are universal and insist even when I tell them otherwise .....
2024-06-13 16:09:08 <veltas      > What can you do...
2024-06-13 16:09:54 <lf94        > lol
2024-06-13 16:10:22 <veltas      > I've not ever seen theory about these things anyway so I wouldn't know if they're used in the UK
2024-06-13 16:10:22 <lf94        > I get it, but L-systems and cellular automata are from computer science
2024-06-13 16:10:32 <lf94        > Pretty much zero usage in the practical programming world
2024-06-13 16:10:36 <veltas      > Yeah
2024-06-13 16:10:41 <lf94        > As we talk about it, I guess it's not surprising
2024-06-13 16:10:44 <veltas      > And the language used for maths and computer science is different in English sometimes than it is in American
2024-06-13 16:10:54 <lf94        > I think I surround myself with this more than others :p
2024-06-13 16:11:07 <veltas      > I did a degree in computer science and this never came up, I'm sure there was some option somewhere at my uni for this.....
2024-06-13 16:11:14 <lf94        > Oh same
2024-06-13 16:11:16 <lf94        > Never came up
2024-06-13 16:11:25 <lf94        > Again it's not really practical at all
2024-06-13 16:11:28 <veltas      > The 'visual' parts are probably trivial anyway
2024-06-13 16:11:56 <lf94        > Yea! It's not hard to write these systems and the result you get is interesting
2024-06-13 16:12:10 <lf94        > I would say fractals are probably harder than this even
2024-06-13 16:12:31 <lf94        > (I find fractals though produce way less natural art)
2024-06-13 16:12:47 <lf94        > (vs lsystems which produce plant-like visuals or cellular automata simulating live things)
2024-06-13 16:13:21 <lf94        > I should probably do the typical "plasma" demo visual too for the my4th
2024-06-13 16:17:52 <GeDaMo      > I read a book Called Artificial Life by Stephen Levy which covers things like CA, L-systems etc.
2024-06-13 16:27:32 <GeDaMo      > https://gwern.net/doc/ai/1992-levy-artificiallife.pdf
2024-06-13 16:27:50 <lf94        > nice
2024-06-13 16:27:59 <lf94        > I've got wolfram's giant book here lol
2024-06-13 16:28:40 <GeDaMo      > I bought that new, not worth it :/
2024-06-13 16:32:32 <dlowe       > I read maybe half of it and maybe 40% of it is self-congratulations
2024-06-13 16:33:28 <GeDaMo      > It's very repetitive
2024-06-13 16:33:47 <dlowe       > I learned: a) 1d cellular automations are pretty cool, b) there's one specific cellular automation that's computational if you squint hard enough
2024-06-13 16:33:56 <dlowe       > SavedYouBuyingAWholeBook
2024-06-13 16:34:14 <GeDaMo      > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110
2024-06-13 16:34:40 <dlowe       > Someone should publish a cliff notes version because it did have some good stuff
2024-06-13 16:35:55 <dlowe       > damn, someone else proved it before publication of the book
2024-06-13 16:36:39 <dlowe       > this is extremely funny if you know how much Wolfram praised his own godly intelligence over this
2024-06-13 16:36:47 <GeDaMo      > Yeah, somebody who worked for Wolfram :P
2024-06-13 16:38:02 <dlowe       > hmm.  so academic plagiarism or suppressed research?
2024-06-13 16:39:00 <GeDaMo      > You might think that I couldn't possibly comment :|
2024-06-13 16:47:56 <lf94        > dlowe: GeDaMo: yeah I've only skimmed it. I like the visuals and explanation but that's pretty much it :)