2024-06-21 13:47:26 <zelgomer    > : whitespace?  [ char ~ 1+ ] literal  [char] !  within ;
2024-06-21 13:51:26 <dave0       > aha
2024-06-21 13:51:47 <dave0       > -1 < x < 33
2024-06-21 14:06:25 <veltas      > Nope, CHAR ~ 1+ is 7F so it's 7F 21 WITHIN which is equivalent to 21 7F WITHIN INVERT i.e. 'not in [21,7F)'
2024-06-21 14:09:35 <veltas      > Although you are essentially right if I treat any number over 7E as negative, because WITHIN really just defines a range of contiguous values, even if they 'wrap round', it doesn't care if you're unsigned, two's complement, or 7F is -1, as long as the values you want are 'contiguous' in unsigned binary
2024-06-21 14:11:02 <veltas      > So you can definitely think of the range as {7F, 80, 81, ...., 1E, 1F, 20}, that's probably the easiest way to think about it
2024-06-21 14:22:56 <veltas      > : SPACE?   DUP 32 =  OVER 9 <> OR  OVER 10 <> OR  SWAP 13 <> OR ;
2024-06-21 14:24:40 <GeDaMo      > https://blog.regehr.org/archives/320#example7
2024-06-21 14:24:43 <veltas      > For interpreting purposes   : SPACE?   33 U< ;
2024-06-21 14:27:23 <veltas      > GeDaMo: Doesn't work nicely without 64-bit forth and is probably premature optimisation for high-level code; but that's a cool technique I've not thought of before
2024-06-21 14:27:33 <veltas      > I'll probably find some use for that
2024-06-21 14:28:09 <veltas      > I suppose you just need 32-bit forth
2024-06-21 14:28:29 <veltas      > But need the check for 33 U< anyway to bound it
2024-06-21 14:28:43 <GeDaMo      > Yeah
2024-06-21 14:31:21 <veltas      > Hmm need to handle space separately too
2024-06-21 14:31:51 <veltas      > In 32-bit
2024-06-21 14:32:13 <veltas      > This is the kind of code I'd write in assembly rather than Forth
2024-06-21 14:35:08 <dave0       > this c code on that regehr site is low quality
2024-06-21 14:36:14 <GeDaMo      > The sort of thing that programmers might write :P
2024-06-21 14:37:16 <dave0       > i hope not :-(
2024-06-21 14:38:27 <veltas      > Something like
2024-06-21 14:38:29 <veltas      > : SPACE?   1- DUP 31 U> IF  FALSE  ELSE  1 SWAP LSHIFT  [ 1 8 LSHIFT  1 9 LSHIFT  1 12 LSHIFT  1 31 LSHIFT  OR OR OR ] LITERAL  AND 0<> THEN ;
2024-06-21 14:39:31 <dave0       > the bitmap trick is clever!
2024-06-21 14:42:17 <veltas      > Yeah definitely
2024-06-21 14:43:22 <veltas      > I keep forgetting even humble CPU's have this powerful set of 1-bit vector operations :P
2024-06-21 14:45:29 <GeDaMo      > It's basically <value> in <set> where <set> covers a limited range
2024-06-21 14:54:33 <GeDaMo      > I'm reminded of a trick they use in simdjson for character classification (alpha, digit, punctuation, etc)
2024-06-21 14:54:33 <GeDaMo      > Normally you would use a LookUp Table but LUTs don't fit well with SIMD
2024-06-21 15:24:33 <veltas      > Nice
2024-06-21 15:24:47 <veltas      > Vector processing is fascinating
2024-06-21 15:35:56 <GeDaMo      > https://hbfs.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/branchless-equivalents-of-simple-functions/
2024-06-21 16:56:40 <veltas      > 'frequently used' is an antipattern, just make navigation easy and structured and my muscle memory will let me find what I use frequently
2024-06-21 17:30:42 <veltas      > The problems start when I try to get something that isn't frequently used, and then I don't understand how to get it because I've got 'frequently used'-itis
2024-06-21 17:35:41 <GeDaMo      > I was thinking about the slash menus from Visicalc / Lotus 1-2-3, they're pretty good for that
2024-06-21 17:36:16 <GeDaMo      > Slash brings up the top level menu, you see the words with each having a letter capitalised to active them
2024-06-21 17:36:40 <GeDaMo      > If you remember the sequence you can just type /fres whatever
2024-06-21 17:37:02 <GeDaMo      > If you don't you can type the bits you remember then see the menu as a reminder
2024-06-21 17:37:08 <veltas      > Most keyboard controls for menus are good
2024-06-21 17:37:25 <veltas      > Like on most old Windows programs you can do alt,f,a to save-as etc
2024-06-21 17:37:35 <GeDaMo      > But a lot of GUIs have weird Ctrl- or Alt- sequences
2024-06-21 17:37:45 <veltas      > New ones are total crap
2024-06-21 17:38:03 <veltas      > The new outlook, I can't figure out how to focus the reminder notification
2024-06-21 17:38:08 <GeDaMo      > Yeah, those old ones are basically the same as slash menus
2024-06-21 17:38:24 <veltas      > It was a window that got focus with alt+tab and now it's a mystery, so I'm slowed down
2024-06-21 17:38:33 <veltas      > Have to touch the mouse
2024-06-21 17:38:50 <veltas      > emacs is like this too
2024-06-21 17:39:32 <veltas      > Well... not as refined because you need - between letters to generate a command name
2024-06-21 17:43:15 <veltas      > Windows had really good generic support for keyboard access, you could totally use the desktop without a mouse, and often it would give a huge speedup
2024-06-21 17:43:22 <veltas      > It's now a total afterthought
2024-06-21 17:43:35 <GeDaMo      > When I first used Windows 1, it was on a machine that didn't have a mouse
2024-06-21 17:44:07 <GeDaMo      > Although there was a problem getting out of it because <enter> chose the default button, whereas <space> chose the selected on
2024-06-21 17:44:32 <GeDaMo      > So we'd tab to the <yes to exit> button and press enter :/
2024-06-21 17:44:50 <GeDaMo      > The default was no so it would cancel the exit
2024-06-21 17:44:51 <veltas      > That's been fixed at some point in the last 30 years
2024-06-21 17:45:04 <veltas      > That does suck
2024-06-21 17:45:18 <GeDaMo      > I think we had to look at the manual to figure that one out :P
2024-06-21 17:45:25 <veltas      > You can put alt-shortcuts on buttons
2024-06-21 17:45:29 <GeDaMo      > The horror! :P
2024-06-21 17:45:31 <veltas      > now, don't know about then
2024-06-21 17:45:44 <veltas      > So you can alt+c to cancel, alt+o to OK
2024-06-21 17:45:47 <veltas      > Or K
2024-06-21 17:46:01 <GeDaMo      > Mmm .. I can't remember if Y and N were underlined
2024-06-21 17:46:12 <veltas      > Probably not
2024-06-21 17:46:23 <veltas      > I think you would have figured that out with your Lotus training
2024-06-21 17:46:43 <veltas      > Windows 1 was bad, from my understanding
2024-06-21 17:46:46 <veltas      > I've not used it
2024-06-21 17:47:17 <GeDaMo      > I'm not sure I'd seen Lotus 1-2-3 at that point, I remember being sent to train someone on using it without ever having used it myself :P
2024-06-21 17:47:23 <veltas      > Windows 3 was the first 'pretty good' Windows IMO, but also was the first I used so maybe I'm biased
2024-06-21 17:47:36 <veltas      > Well all DOS apps worked in a similar way even then right?
2024-06-21 17:47:43 <veltas      > Letters would be highlighted
2024-06-21 17:47:47 <veltas      > if they were a shortcut
2024-06-21 17:47:49 <GeDaMo      > I think my company was selling SuperCalc
2024-06-21 17:48:37 <veltas      > Have you developed much for Windows?
2024-06-21 17:48:58 <GeDaMo      > I think the last time was VB 1.0 :P
2024-06-21 17:49:17 <GeDaMo      > Oh wait, I wrote some Windows C programs at home
2024-06-21 17:50:20 <veltas      > I've written a few small Windows apps and I actually don't mind win32, MFC etc