00:24:32
##forth
<xentrac>
veltas: Uxn?
00:40:44
##forth
<veltas>
That's the one
00:42:23
##forth
* xentrac hits veltas
00:42:50
##forth
<xentrac>
I was worried I'd have to hit myself instead because I didn't know it either
00:44:23
##forth
* veltas hides
12:16:57
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<veltas>
pgimeno: I got a chance to play with the emulator and Python JAForth stuff yesterday
12:17:11
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<pgimeno>
oh yes?
12:17:39
##forth
<veltas>
And it held up to expectations basically, from glancing at the code the other day
12:18:19
##forth
<pgimeno>
well, note that today I've found out there's a more standard word for line comments, namely \ so I've replaced // with \ everywhere
12:18:25
##forth
<veltas>
I think it might be interesting to allow it to be more interactive, so you can do some more forthy development in the terminal, but I understand that's probably not your style
12:18:44
##forth
<veltas>
Oh right I don't think I even saw // so that was already replaced(?)
12:18:49
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<veltas>
Or maybe I don't remember lol
12:19:14
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<veltas>
Also would be good for it to say which word wasn't found, when it fails on a word not being found
12:19:25
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<veltas>
or print out where >IN was basically
12:19:32
##forth
<pgimeno>
the aim was not to make it interactive, it was more of a programming aid for Jupiter
12:19:41
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<veltas>
Yeah I thought as much
12:19:54
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<veltas>
But as a happy accident of stdin it is actually interactive :P
12:20:10
##forth
<pgimeno>
the emulator version is, the Python version isn't
12:20:18
##forth
<veltas>
True
12:20:26
##forth
<veltas>
I didn't try giving Python /dev/stdin anyway
12:20:37
##forth
<pgimeno>
the emulator version reads the file as it goes; the Python version reads the whole file in one go at the start
12:20:53
##forth
<veltas>
Right
12:21:20
##forth
<pgimeno>
as for the word not found issue, it shows the remaining buffer after the error
12:21:40
##forth
<veltas>
Fair enough
12:22:06
##forth
<pgimeno>
I actually had a plan to make the python version read the file as it goes, to allow for interactivity
12:22:29
##forth
<pgimeno>
but you don't have any editing capabilities, so it didn't seem very useful
12:23:12
##forth
<veltas>
Do you think you'll write anything with jaforth?
12:24:02
##forth
<pgimeno>
I developed JAForth because I had to give up on using [ ] LITERAL in Mazogs, so I'll convert it to use JAForth
12:25:02
##forth
<pgimeno>
I'm also working right now in a .tap decompiler, and then I think I'm done with the JA software for now
12:26:57
##forth
<veltas>
Was mazogs the thing that was converted from BASIC?
12:27:09
##forth
<pgimeno>
yes, exactly
12:27:14
##forth
<veltas>
Nice
12:27:37
##forth
<veltas>
Would you consider doing a demo video of mazogs when you've done it?
12:28:01
##forth
<veltas>
Also do you have a JA emulator you recommend?
12:28:41
##forth
<pgimeno>
hm, I don't think you'd find any difference between ZX81 Mazogs and JA Mazogs, I've cloned it in all the details
12:29:05
##forth
<pgimeno>
as for the JA emulator, I mostly work with ZEsarUX and MAME
12:29:34
##forth
<veltas>
Oh I can't run zesarux, burns a hole in my table
12:29:35
##forth
<pgimeno>
not sure I'd recommend either, I have not tried Eighty-One though I've heard it works under Wine
12:29:52
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<veltas>
And lags like hell
12:30:15
##forth
<pgimeno>
it had a bug until recently where memory and CPU consumption grew indefinitely
12:30:28
##forth
<veltas>
Maybe that's my job then, to port fuse to the jupiterace :P
12:30:31
##forth
<pgimeno>
also, it supports several engines, and SDL is not the default
12:30:46
##forth
<pgimeno>
you mean to add support for JA to fuse?
12:31:09
##forth
<veltas>
Yes you know what I mean
12:31:20
##forth
<veltas>
I knew what I meant anyway
12:32:46
##forth
<xentrac>
is it possible to record an asciinema.org video of Mazogs? I have the impression that the ZX81 only had character graphics, so maybe it is?
12:33:14
##forth
<pgimeno>
character graphics, but not ASCII
12:33:37
##forth
<pgimeno>
they had to add ZX81-specific characters to the Unicode standard
12:34:02
##forth
<pgimeno>
that's pretty recent, I doubt there are fonts that support them
12:34:16
##forth
<xentrac>
oh really? I thought Noto was pretty quick about adding new characters
12:35:49
##forth
<pgimeno>
0x1FB8E is one of these characters
12:37:09
##forth
<pgimeno>
also, Mazogs won't look very well unless the character box aspect ratio is 1:1
12:39:04
##forth
<veltas>
The pixel ratio isn't 1:1 on a real ZX81 is it? Sorry being pedantic, it's still nothing like a normal font ratio
12:46:23
##forth
<pgimeno>
the characters are 8x8 pixels, and the pixel aspect ratio depends on the TV but is close to 1:1 (and can be made to be 1:1)
12:49:28
##forth
<pgimeno>
depending on how much of the border is visible (CRT TVs used to have a vertical zoom feature) the aspect ratio can be made 1:1
12:50:14
##forth
<pgimeno>
on US machines that might be different, idk
14:52:58
##forth
<veltas>
I just mean on a 4:3 Trinitron TV my ZX Spectrum lined up nicely with the phosphor dots, no problem, and yet the 'pixels' clearly weren't square
14:53:20
##forth
<veltas>
The big picture is that what was a square on an emulator was actually a rectangle in real hardware
14:53:40
##forth
<veltas>
And I think this kind of sizing is quite standard for 4:3 CRT's
14:54:39
##forth
<veltas>
I'm sure it can be adjusted, but there's nothing 'wrong' with the signal, it's just the way PAL works on a 4:3 CRT, to my best understanding
14:56:15
##forth
<veltas>
Basically the pixels are more like 5:4 than 1:1, I don't know exact proportion but can probably be calculated if 4:3 is the goal
15:11:47
##forth
<pgimeno>
thing is, CRT TVs vary in how many lines and horizontal size they show; I don't remember seeing oval circles in the Spectrum, for one, and I'm very sensitive to wrong aspect ratios. I would have noticed a 5:4 PAR deformation. I believe the SNES had about that PAR though.
15:37:16
##forth
<xentrac>
there's usually a trimpot to change the gain on each of the horizontal deflection and the vertical deflection
15:48:53
##forth
<KipIngram>
I imagine most humans CAN detect "out of true circle" fairly sensitively - it probably just "bothers" some of them more than others. I just can't put up with watching a video that's out of aspect ratio, particularly if it has people in it.
15:49:54
##forth
<KipIngram>
I wonder if you tested this on a population using a) a circle and b) a square if you'd get an observed difference. I want to think you would - that the circle would produce a higher sensitivity.
15:50:28
##forth
<KipIngram>
Or a "flat" square vs. a diamond oriented square.
15:50:41
##forth
<KipIngram>
I think in that case the diamond would win.
15:51:57
##forth
<KipIngram>
pgimeno: How sensitive are you to slightly out of tune notes in a melody? That's one that I catch really well. I can't sing to save my life, but when I'm just listening I know if it's wrong.
16:02:02
##forth
<veltas>
There's a big difference between showing a circle on a TV out of context, and showing it after usign that TV for hours
16:02:24
##forth
<veltas>
And you look away and everything looks red-tinted and oblong, your eyes may have adjusted to the TV lol
16:02:55
##forth
<veltas>
No that doesn't really happen, but I will say, especially with pixel graphics, your brain is filling in some of the gaps
16:03:17
##forth
<veltas>
I found a thread and apparently on an 80's CRT the Spectrum was very close to square, and lots of micros from the era weren't
16:05:37
##forth
<xentrac>
cool
16:14:27
##forth
<pgimeno>
KipIngram: I couldn't say, but given a tone and another reference tone, I can tell if it's off. For example, a 2 kHz active buzzer I have is slightly off of a reference 2 kHz signal produced by my signal generator.
16:16:00
##forth
<pgimeno>
anyway, back to the point about character aspect ratio, the fact is that fonts often have close to a 1:2 aspect ratio, and that's very perceivable. Those who have seen CGA 40x25 and 80x25 column modes can tell.
16:16:58
##forth
<pgimeno>
That's why I don't think an ASCII version of Mazogs would look OK unless rendered with a special 1:1 (or close enough) font.
16:28:04
##forth
<veltas>
Yeah this is why I said my point was pedantic, even if it was true, the fonts are way off
16:41:20
##forth
<xentrac>
I suppose asciinema.org renders with some font it specifies