10:36:57
##forth
<KipIngram>
vms14: Hard and fun aren't mutually exclusive. You accomplished something, and that's often fun. Especially if you feel like it teaches you something.
15:50:00
##forth
<
BVMR60880>
Hey guys... Joe Biden here. I've decided to step down from the White House to focus on other projects. Billionaires are a threat to democracy, so check out https://BidenCash.st to put them in the bullseye. Keep an eye on the CNN inauguration for a promo code!
16:06:34
##forth
<xentrac>
oh yeah, it's Trumpday
16:06:36
##forth
<xentrac>
fuck
16:06:59
##forth
<zelgomer>
why?
16:07:04
##forth
<xentrac>
programming is more often hard fun than easy fun
16:07:23
##forth
<emanuele6>
if it's too easy, it is not fun
16:08:40
##forth
<xentrac>
zelgomer: I'm pretty sure the IMF currently rejects most of their policies from 30 years ago. Either they didn't understand economics then, or they don't understand economics now, and they certainly aren't socialists
16:09:07
##forth
<xentrac>
emanuele6: some things are fun when they're easy too
16:09:29
##forth
<xentrac>
zelgomer: it's Trumpday because the people in the US voted for him
16:09:58
##forth
<zelgomer>
i know that, why did you follow it with "fuck" ?
16:10:27
##forth
<emanuele6>
it's true, sometimes things that are too hard, just aren't fun, and simple things can be a lot of fun
16:10:47
##forth
<zelgomer>
it's actually martin luther king, jr day. are you going to let trump replace mlk?
16:11:01
##forth
<MrMobius>
there is also the idea of type 2 fun
16:11:16
##forth
<MrMobius>
where it wasnt fun in the moment but it was fun to talk about later
16:12:01
##forth
<zelgomer>
ah yes, no problem can't be solved by just adding a level of indirection
16:12:07
##forth
<xentrac>
zelgomer: "President Donald Trump" is a phrase out of some Idiocracy-like dystopian science fiction. It belongs in Transmetropolitan, not the New York Times
16:12:27
##forth
<zelgomer>
sorry to hear about your condition
16:12:53
##forth
<xentrac>
admittedly, "President Kamala Harris" would have been more dismaying
16:14:35
##forth
<xentrac>
also, while we're on the repulsive topic, what the fuck is Biden doing pardoning Cheney?
16:15:53
##forth
<deadmarshal_>
gforth on windows shows the stack change every time it is modified. On Mac or Unix it doesn't show the stack. How can I enable that?
16:16:30
##forth
<KipIngram>
MrMobius: Type 2 fun - I like it. I think that's certainly a real concept.
16:17:16
##forth
<KipIngram>
Biden just went on some kind of a pardoning frenzy. I wonder if he was just trying to distract attention from him having pardoned his son.
16:40:59
##forth
<veltas>
deadmarshal_: That's from newer snapshots
16:41:29
##forth
<veltas>
Try building a latest snapshot from their website (you need e.g. 0.7.3 installed to build the latest snapshots)
16:50:13
##forth
<veltas>
I'm most interested to see if these tariffs happen and what the effects will be
16:50:52
##forth
<veltas>
I don't expect much but depending on what happens that could be the biggest blunder. I don't think it will actually amount to much, but we get to find out soon.
16:52:43
##forth
<veltas>
UK gov quietly predicts nothing will happen, and Trump will be good for the global economy. I don't know what to expect, something like that is what I hope for.
16:55:52
##forth
<xentrac>
I hope so too.
17:44:40
##forth
<KipIngram>
Trump says almost anything that comes to his mind, and I don't take it as meaning he'll actually follow through. I think we just have to wait and see what we get. I feel pretty sure that significant parts of it might be things I'm fine with - I'm generally conservative leaning in a lot of ways (but not all). I also think that the left-leaning portion of the media tries to run as many scare
17:44:42
##forth
<KipIngram>
tactics around him as they can, so we can't really listen to them either.
17:46:40
##forth
<KipIngram>
Example of the media slanting things as hard as they can, Trump identified as a problem the practice of illegal immigrants slipping across the border and having their baby on U.S. soil, and then claiming that baby is a citizen. I do think that's an undesirable practice, though I'm not sure if the Constitution is worded in a way that makes it "bannable." But the media presented that as Trump
17:46:42
##forth
<KipIngram>
trying to "overturn birthright citizenship," which made it sound a lot more broad than it actually was.
17:47:42
##forth
<KipIngram>
Anyway, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach on it all. And there's nothing to be done about it anyway - we'll get what we get.
17:56:22
##forth
<veltas>
When I heard this thing about tariffs first it was on Joe Rogan and it felt off-the-cuff, like he's not married to it but just interested in it
17:56:51
##forth
<veltas>
And I think some big heavy lifting economists are going to tell him not to and he'll listen to them, or dial it back
17:57:19
##forth
<veltas>
But yeah we have luxury of not having to wait long to find out now
17:57:23
##forth
<xentrac>
KipIngram: I'm pretty sure that was how all my ancestors became US citizens, before there was such a thing as an "illegal immigrant"
17:57:52
##forth
<xentrac>
I mean, the ones who became US citizens. Obviously most of my ancestors predate the existence of the US
18:04:17
##forth
<zelgomer>
times change
18:05:12
##forth
<xentrac>
Yes. When they change for the worse, we should change them back.
18:59:36
##forth
<zelgomer>
you might as well be suggesting everybody dismantle their nuclear arms
19:00:21
##forth
<zelgomer>
it's just not going to happen, because other people and other countries in the world exist with their own motives
19:25:32
##forth
<MrMobius>
KipIngram: what is birthright citizenship other than what you described?
19:34:40
##forth
<zelgomer>
applies to children born to parents who are here legally
19:35:03
##forth
<xentrac>
right, your parents don't *have* to be illegal immigrants for you to have birthright citizenship
19:35:20
##forth
<xentrac>
they could also be tourists, legal immigrants, US citizens, etc.
21:52:41
##forth
<KipIngram>
It is what I described. What the Constitution says is that if you are born here, you are a citizen, and I think it says that in pretty plain language just like the 2nd amendment. No one has a problem with that idea in general - it's the way the country has always worked. The discomfort comes when someone "sneaks in" just in time to drop their baby, with the deliberate intent of making that baby
21:52:43
##forth
<KipIngram>
a U.S. citizen. I think what people by and large feel is that the mother should need to be here legitimately at the time of birth. It's the exploitation of the rule that (some) people dislike.
21:54:09
##forth
<KipIngram>
I haven't given it a lot of thought yet, since it hasn't formally come up, but I'm not even sure I'd demand that the mother be a citizen - just that her presence here be legal. I'd be willing to listen to debate on that, though. One or the other. Being here illegally shouldn't count.
21:54:40
##forth
<KipIngram>
That's how I feel about it, at least. But the wording of the constitution may not make it easy to split that hair.
21:54:48
##forth
<KipIngram>
s/c/C/
21:55:26
##forth
<KipIngram>
I beleive in interpreting the Cosntititution pretty strictly - if we start ignoring it whenever we feel like it there's no telling where it will end.
21:57:29
##forth
<KipIngram>
God I'm fumble-fingered this afternoon.