13:45:06
##forth
<[bot]konilo>
Konilo via IRC
14:35:26
##forth
<KipIngram>
xentrac: Yes - given the spectrum of parts available these days, it just doesn't make sense to me to try to use the very very lowest cost ones and then struggle to have enough resources to make a system work. When for just a couple more bucks you can easily give yourself plenty of breathing room.
14:36:21
##forth
<KipIngram>
I think the only time it makes sense to try to use the really rock bottom stuff is if you're thinking the thing you make is going to be mass-produced in huge numbers. Then those pennies add up. Otherwise... make life easy.
14:36:59
##forth
<MrMobius>
you probably also don't want to go with an off the wall part like padauk since tooling isn't usually that good. last I checked, there was only a Chinese datssheet
14:37:20
##forth
<MrMobius>
but it does satisfy the minimal cost requirement!
14:38:00
##forth
<KipIngram>
That's a good point too - access to tools also can make life easy. Though sometimes I just like the idea of seeing how little I can get by with. Or at least I like thinking about it.
14:39:05
##forth
<MrMobius>
I think I would only consider a part like that if I was going to do a bunch of projects with it
14:39:26
##forth
<MrMobius>
The pennies you save are canceled out by the engineering time lost which is expensive
14:40:04
##forth
<MrMobius>
but once you get used to it, the lost time is a sunk cost. I think this is why stuff like 8051 has hung on so long
14:40:11
##forth
<KipIngram>
Well, it would depend on how massive "mass" was in that sentence, but yeah - reuse means more copies.
16:50:53
##forth
<nmz>
doing project euler on forth is a PITA considering you're usually dealing with BIGNUMs though
17:20:17
##forth
<KipIngram>
I swear, the way ChatGPT can just circle the same rabbit holes endlessly is quite amazing. It's remarkable how stupid it can seem in certain situations. If you ask it about something thoroughly standard, it seems fine for passing mainstream ideas you might not be familiar with to you. But if you get even a little bit "off to the side," it seems utterly incapable of staying focused on your
17:20:19
##forth
<KipIngram>
particular requirements.
17:21:09
##forth
<KipIngram>
You can ask something, and it will say "X might work." "No, X is no good because of ..." "Ok, how about Y?" "No, that's no good because of ..." "Ah, how about X?"
17:21:28
##forth
<nmz>
welp
17:21:32
##forth
<nmz>
that keeps you employed
17:21:40
##forth
<KipIngram>
Indeed. :-)
17:21:59
##forth
<KipIngram>
It's a little scary that there are people out there actually trusting these things to help them with things they can't vet themselves.
17:22:21
##forth
<KipIngram>
Because they can make an utterly wrong thing sound quite wonderful.
17:23:02
##forth
<KipIngram>
What I find it useful for, though, is just bringing to my attention things I wasn't previously specifically familiar with.
17:23:17
##forth
<nmz>
I've never used gpt, I stick to copilot
17:23:28
##forth
<KipIngram>
Haven't tried that one.
17:23:32
##forth
<nmz>
but I noticed that internet search is just awful nowadays
17:24:15
##forth
<nmz>
but I'm not doing anything complicated either, like people writing an entire program in claude
17:24:21
##forth
<KipIngram>
I use a little 5V, 30W power supply in a project I made recently, and I'm interested in using it again in something new. But 30W is really more than I need, so I thought maybe I could save a few dollars. So I asked it to suggest parts I could consider. That wound up being a rabbit hole.
17:25:18
##forth
<nmz>
oh my
17:25:45
##forth
<KipIngram>
Yeah, I'll probably just re-use the same one. It's fine, and it's not THAT expensive.
17:26:20
##forth
<KipIngram>
And the extra $$$ are probably paying for more than just unnecessary watts.
17:26:28
##forth
<KipIngram>
It has really good isolation, for example.
17:26:57
##forth
<nmz>
so it definitely needs friends
17:27:08
##forth
<KipIngram>
lmao
17:27:27
##forth
<KipIngram>
Yeah; I'll introduce it to a nice sexy Raspberry Pi.
18:00:30
##forth
<xentrac>
KipIngram: I was thinking that for 8¢ more thn the very very lowest cost ones you can easily give yourself plenty of breathing room. the PY32F002B has 24KiB of Flash and 3KiB of RAM, which is plenty for an interactive Forth if it supports in-application programming, which I think it does
18:02:00
##forth
<xentrac>
Padauk has English datasheets for their parts, and their datasheets are a lot more comprehensive than datasheets for more complex parts
18:03:12
##forth
<xentrac>
(such as the PY32)
18:03:39
##forth
<xentrac>
don't get me wrong; both Padauk and Puya do publish Chinese datasheets if you want them
18:12:00
##forth
<xentrac>
I haven't actually tried Puya
18:12:10
##forth
<xentrac>
's or Padauk's chips
23:01:54
##forth
<cleobuline>
toto: TUTU @ .
23:33:33
##forth
<cleobuline>
new version of mforth with multithreading accept concurent request
23:36:19
##forth
<zozo>
mforth: 20000 DELAY ." TOP ! "
23:36:30
##forth
<cleobuline>
mforth: WORDS
23:36:30
##forth
<mforth>
USERNAME .S . + - * / MOD DUP DROP SWAP OVER ROT >R R> R@ = < > AND OR NOT XOR & | ^ ~ << >> CR EMIT VARIABLE @ ! +! DO LOOP I WORDS LOAD CREATE ALLOT ." CLOCK BEGIN WHILE REPEAT AGAIN SQRT UNLOOP +LOOP PICK CLEAR-STACK PRINT NUM-TO-BIN PRIME? FORGET STRING " 2DROP IMAGE TEMP-IMAGE CLEAR-STRINGS DELAY EXIT MICRO MILLI
23:36:39
##forth
<mforth>
TOP !
23:36:47
##forth
<cleobuline>
it works :)
23:37:20
##forth
<cleobuline>
users are not blocked by other user
23:54:43
##forth
<veltas>
nmz: That's what cleobuline's Forth does, it's all bignums
23:55:21
##forth
<veltas>
Very nice cleobuline
23:55:25
##forth
<cleobuline>
now it is multi threaded veltas
23:56:06
##forth
<veltas>
That's why I said "very nice" :P
23:56:24
##forth
<veltas>
Are you using pthreads?
23:56:34
##forth
<cleobuline>
yes
23:58:24
##forth
<cleobuline>
add EXIT to kill all environments and the bot
23:58:36
##forth
<cleobuline>
mforth: EXIT
23:58:36
##forth
<mforth>
Bot shutting down...
23:58:57
##forth
<cleobuline>
no need control c