2025-05-22 01:03:22 <vms14       > where do s" and c" store the string in memory?
2025-05-22 01:03:30 <vms14       > they do not seem to increment here
2025-05-22 01:03:44 <vms14       > I'm incrementing here with both
2025-05-22 01:05:36 <vms14       > they do not store it in the pad either
2025-05-22 01:05:42 <vms14       > at least in gforth
2025-05-22 01:06:57 <vms14       > it is wrong to increment here for s" and c"?
2025-05-22 01:25:45 <forthBot    > Environment for cleobuli_ inactive, freeing...
2025-05-22 02:26:33 <xentrac     > vms14: typically they store it in the colon definition
2025-05-22 02:26:35 <xentrac     > : hello s" goodbye" ;  ' hello 48 dump
2025-05-22 02:26:35 <xentrac     > 7F7BF76C34A8: BC 7E 10 34  CA 55 00 00 - 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00  .~.4.U..........
2025-05-22 02:26:38 <xentrac     > 7F7BF76C34B8: D9 80 10 34  CA 55 00 00 - D0 34 6C F7  7B 7F 00 00  ...4.U...4l.{...
2025-05-22 02:26:41 <xentrac     > 7F7BF76C34C8: 67 6F 6F 64  62 79 65 20 - BE 82 10 34  CA 55 00 00  goodbye ...4.U..
2025-05-22 02:28:44 <xentrac     > (in gforth)
2025-05-22 02:38:28 <vms14       > yeah but outside them they seem to use what they call "a transient buffer" which is not pad and will be reused the next time s" or c" are called
2025-05-22 02:39:05 <vms14       > my pad is actually from 0 to 300 since memory is just an array, here starts at 300
2025-05-22 02:39:29 <vms14       > and colon definitions do not reside in memory, they are just a perl subroutine xd
2025-05-22 02:40:19 <vms14       > I should think about making a dictionary in memory, but for now I will keep having memory only for the rest of stuff and the dictionary be a hash table
2025-05-22 02:43:22 <vms14       > that's the interpreter now https://paste.c-net.org/RemarkBreeds
2025-05-22 02:44:13 <vms14       > and the words I have for now https://termbin.com/y7fp
2025-05-22 02:47:08 <vms14       > it launches a repl if you load that with perl
2025-05-22 02:52:25 <vms14       > I should create DUMP
2025-05-22 02:53:13 <xentrac     > s" is called " in F83
2025-05-22 02:53:29 <xentrac     > in compilation state it stores the characters in the colon definition, same as GForth
2025-05-22 02:54:43 <xentrac     > in interpretation state it appends them to the dictionary anyway
2025-05-22 02:54:54 <xentrac     > just not as part of a dictionary entry necessarily
2025-05-22 03:01:22 <vms14       > then it increments HERE like I do
2025-05-22 03:01:38 <vms14       > cool
2025-05-22 03:01:54 <vms14       > I like it that way more because they can persist
2025-05-22 03:02:25 <vms14       > but maybe they shouldn't and that's why the space gets reused in gforth
2025-05-22 03:02:40 <xentrac     > well also it doesn't work
2025-05-22 03:03:30 <vms14       > what does not work
2025-05-22 03:03:42 <xentrac     > it doesn't push the address and length on the stack in interpret state
2025-05-22 03:03:55 <vms14       > in f83?
2025-05-22 03:03:57 <xentrac     > yeah
2025-05-22 03:04:02 <vms14       > oh
2025-05-22 03:04:05 <xentrac     > so there's no way to use the string you've thus stored
2025-05-22 03:04:08 <xentrac     > well
2025-05-22 03:05:53 <xentrac     > maybe if you saved the value of here from before storing the string you could find the counted string from it
2025-05-22 03:07:39 <xentrac     > like here " hello vms14" 2 + count type says "hello vms14 ok"
2025-05-22 03:08:57 <vms14       > I have ," for that
2025-05-22 03:10:52 <vms14       > " pushes the string directly on the stack or definition and the others work like in forth
2025-05-22 03:11:18 <vms14       > I have accept too xd
2025-05-22 03:11:48 <vms14       > I will try to see how much of starting forth code I can evaluate in this thing
2025-05-22 03:11:55 <vms14       > the F example works already
2025-05-22 03:12:26 <vms14       > https://paste.c-net.org/TypicalLarry
2025-05-22 03:12:32 <vms14       > although that was simple
2025-05-22 03:15:28 <xentrac     > this works in F83: here " yer mom" ' type , ' unnest , constant where : whoa where >r ; whoa printing "yer mom"
2025-05-22 03:16:12 <xentrac     > whoa is arranging to return into the code appended to the dictionary by " and the two calls to ,
2025-05-22 03:16:22 <xentrac     > whose location is at the constant where
2025-05-22 14:23:18 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  LOAD "ini.fth"
2025-05-22 14:23:18 <forthBot    > File ini.fth loaded
2025-05-22 14:23:34 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  MICRO 123456789123457 FPRIME? .  MICRO SWAP - .
2025-05-22 14:23:35 <forthBot    > 1
2025-05-22 14:23:35 <forthBot    > 886487
2025-05-22 14:23:50 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  MICRO 123456789123457 FPRIME2? .  MICRO SWAP - .
2025-05-22 14:23:50 <forthBot    > 1
2025-05-22 14:23:51 <forthBot    > 604963
2025-05-22 14:24:11 <cleobuline  > less than 1 second
2025-05-22 14:25:00 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  MICRO 123456789123457 PRIME? .  MICRO SWAP - .
2025-05-22 14:25:00 <forthBot    > 1
2025-05-22 14:25:01 <forthBot    > 47
2025-05-22 16:01:13 <cleobuline  > bon
2025-05-22 16:04:10 <vms14       > I'm learning forth by implementing words
2025-05-22 16:05:16 <vms14       > but I should change the dictionary and have proper headers and body for words
2025-05-22 16:16:03 <cleobuline  > vms14:  with assembler ?
2025-05-22 16:16:08 <cleobuline  > of c ?
2025-05-22 16:16:17 <cleobuline  > or c
2025-05-22 16:19:37 <vms14       > in perl xd
2025-05-22 16:19:40 <vms14       > https://paste.c-net.org/SpousesBerlin
2025-05-22 16:20:18 <vms14       > @memory[$addr .. $addr + $times] = ($element) x $times;
2025-05-22 16:20:25 <vms14       > that's the implementation for FILL
2025-05-22 16:20:45 <vms14       > 0 30 32 FILL
2025-05-22 16:25:00 <forthBot    > Environment for cleobuline inactive, freeing...
2025-05-22 19:37:06 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  LOAD "ini.fth"
2025-05-22 19:37:06 <forthBot    > File ini.fth loaded
2025-05-22 19:37:17 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  CREDIT
2025-05-22 19:37:17 <forthBot    > Brought to you by Cleobuline updated with hashtable  https://github.com/cleobuline/forth-bot-gmp-irc-threaded-multi-users/tree/main Site https://labynet.fr
2025-05-22 21:37:17 <forthBot    > Environment for cleobuline inactive, freeing...
2025-05-22 21:55:19 <vms14       > I have created m" which is like s" but expects an address on the stack and puts the strirng there
2025-05-22 21:56:01 <xentrac     > huh, interesting!
2025-05-22 21:56:19 <xentrac     > so you can pad m"
2025-05-22 21:56:27 <vms14       > yes
2025-05-22 21:56:41 <vms14       > I should make a version with limit I guess
2025-05-22 21:56:50 <vms14       > but does not make sense
2025-05-22 21:57:14 <vms14       > at the end you are creating a literal string so you should know if it fits or not
2025-05-22 21:57:32 <vms14       > I assume it can be useful for data structures and alike
2025-05-22 21:57:54 <vms14       > I was starting to read Object-Oriented Forth: Implementation of Data Structures
2025-05-22 21:57:57 <xentrac     > I agree
2025-05-22 21:58:23 <vms14       > it shows a very simple way to create records with constants and does> + ;
2025-05-22 21:58:56 <xentrac     > I suppose that in compile mode it will be copying the characters of the string into the location it gets from the stack
2025-05-22 21:59:03 <xentrac     > from the colon definition
2025-05-22 21:59:37 <vms14       > 0 constant name 20 constant phone : record create 40 allot does> + ;
2025-05-22 22:00:38 <vms14       > record john-doe name john-doe m" John Doe"
2025-05-22 22:00:47 <vms14       > should work
2025-05-22 22:00:52 <xentrac     > you could imagine a simpler way to define the record structure
2025-05-22 22:01:02 <vms14       > yeah it will explain it later
2025-05-22 22:01:08 <vms14       > (the book)
2025-05-22 22:01:22 <vms14       > but it lead to the m" word which is cool
2025-05-22 22:03:17 <vms14       > should I name it !" ?
2025-05-22 22:03:18 <xentrac     > like : field create , does> @ + ;  : record create 40 allot ; for example
2025-05-22 22:03:26 <xentrac     > !" sounds like a good name to me
2025-05-22 22:03:27 <vms14       > I used m" because of memory
2025-05-22 22:03:33 <vms14       > but store is !
2025-05-22 22:03:36 <xentrac     > yeah
2025-05-22 22:03:51 <xentrac     > should it return the address and length or not?
2025-05-22 22:04:01 <vms14       > does not return anything
2025-05-22 22:04:02 <xentrac     > I feel like it should at least return the length
2025-05-22 22:04:26 <vms14       > or put a counted string
2025-05-22 22:04:33 <xentrac     > counted strings were a mistake
2025-05-22 22:04:41 <vms14       > I was thinking on a variation for the counted string
2025-05-22 22:04:44 <vms14       > oh
2025-05-22 22:05:14 <xentrac     > but without returning the string length somewhere, if you want to have Forth type out the string, you have to count the bytes yourself and say name john-doe 8 type
2025-05-22 22:05:52 <vdupras     > In Dusk, I call it cmove" ( dstaddr -- a u ) because it does pretty much like cmove
2025-05-22 22:06:13 <xentrac     > is a dstaddr?
2025-05-22 22:07:07 <vms14       > why they were a mistake
2025-05-22 22:07:33 <vms14       > returning a number it's sad because it requires me to store it somewhere although you are right
2025-05-22 22:07:39 <vms14       > but a counted string solves both problems
2025-05-22 22:07:49 <vms14       > name john-doe count type
2025-05-22 22:08:03 <xentrac     > because if you have a regular string and you want to pass it to a word that wants a counted string, you have to allocate a buffer somewhere and copy the count and the string into it
2025-05-22 22:08:15 <xentrac     > also you have a bug if a string grows past 255 bytes
2025-05-22 22:08:30 <xentrac     > so I think it's a mistake to create words that want counted strings
2025-05-22 22:08:37 <xentrac     > unfortunately there is one of them in the Forth standard
2025-05-22 22:08:47 <xentrac     > find
2025-05-22 22:09:26 <vms14       > so the problem is wanting a counted string
2025-05-22 22:09:28 <xentrac     > the standard punched-card way to store variable-length strings in a fixed-width field is Forth's -trailing
2025-05-22 22:09:54 <xentrac     > you pad out the buffer with spaces and pass the buffer's address and size to -trailing
2025-05-22 22:10:53 <xentrac     > then you can type it
2025-05-22 22:10:54 <xentrac     > as a trivial example: : hi s" example     " -trailing type ; hi example ok
2025-05-22 22:10:56 <xentrac     > oops
2025-05-22 22:10:57 <vms14       > like expect does
2025-05-22 22:11:03 <xentrac     > as a trivial example: : hi s" example     " -trailing type ; hi example ok
2025-05-22 22:11:23 <vms14       > I was implementing expect today, filling the rest with spaces
2025-05-22 22:11:47 <vms14       > that's why in part I was wondering about expecting a limit for m"
2025-05-22 22:11:51 <xentrac     > I think accept obsoletes expect
2025-05-22 22:11:53 <vms14       > so it fills with spaces
2025-05-22 22:12:01 <vms14       > I have both accept and expect
2025-05-22 22:13:58 <vms14       > I guess m" should return a number or expect a limit and fill with spaces
2025-05-22 22:14:20 <vms14       > and I also want the counted string because it makes sense for john doe's name
2025-05-22 22:15:03 <vms14       > name john-doe m" John" name john-doe count type
2025-05-22 22:15:22 <xentrac     > what I did for string handling in Forth last millennium was to reimplement DJB's stralloc in Forth, on top of malloc/free
2025-05-22 22:15:29 <xentrac     > which I think are called allocate and free
2025-05-22 22:15:29 <vms14       > I guess I will use only the counted version for now and name it !"
2025-05-22 22:15:39 <xentrac     > yes
2025-05-22 22:15:47 <vms14       > because it's weird to not see ! when setting values
2025-05-22 22:16:05 <xentrac     > you will regret having used counted strings
2025-05-22 22:16:08 <xentrac     > ;)
2025-05-22 22:16:09 <vms14       > :/
2025-05-22 22:16:29 <vms14       > well right now I have to experiment with things so it's fine
2025-05-22 22:16:40 <vms14       > the next month all this code will likely not exist anymore
2025-05-22 22:20:09 <cleobuline  > hello at night here !
2025-05-22 22:20:20 <vms14       > hi cleobuline
2025-05-22 22:20:32 <xentrac     > somehow that makes me sad
2025-05-22 22:20:39 <cleobuline  > L'heure locale pour Paris, Île-de-France, France métropolitaine, France est : 2025-05-22 22:20:24 (Fuseau horaire : Europe/Paris)
2025-05-22 22:20:55 <xentrac     > c'est un fuseau!
2025-05-22 22:21:06 <vms14       > I think a counted string makes sense in this case because it embeds the number, but I will remember to avoid expecting them and using count always
2025-05-22 22:21:07 <xentrac     > in Spanish it's an "huso"
2025-05-22 22:21:37 <vms14       > xentrac sad that I will throw everything? it means I will rewrite it changing what I have learned experimenting now
2025-05-22 22:21:39 <xentrac     > which sounds exactly like "uso", as in "usage"
2025-05-22 22:21:53 <xentrac     > yes, probably I am unreasonably attached to things
2025-05-22 22:22:02 <xentrac     > thank God my wife makes me throw things out
2025-05-22 22:22:07 <vms14       > I cannot have attachment to a prototype
2025-05-22 22:22:25 <vms14       > when I learn what I'm doing and have a proper design then ok
2025-05-22 22:22:41 <vms14       > but now the code and the design suck and really has to change
2025-05-22 22:23:13 <vms14       > it is my playground where I learn, has been like that for a while
2025-05-22 22:23:40 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  STRING TOTO
2025-05-22 22:24:07 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  "S This is a string "S TOTO !
2025-05-22 22:24:07 <forthBot    > Unknown word: This
2025-05-22 22:24:07 <forthBot    > Unknown word: is
2025-05-22 22:24:08 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:24:08 <forthBot    > Unknown word: string
2025-05-22 22:24:08 <forthBot    > Error: STORE: Stack underflow for string value
2025-05-22 22:24:20 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  S" his is a string "S TOTO !
2025-05-22 22:24:39 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  TOTO @ PRINT CR
2025-05-22 22:24:40 <forthBot    > his is a string
2025-05-22 22:24:40 <xentrac     > cleobuline: you really need to fix that bug where it can generate multiple lines of error messages for a single line of input
2025-05-22 22:25:37 <cleobuline  > it's not a bug it just evaluate a string
2025-05-22 22:26:07 <cleobuline  > i can't predict that the input is buggy
2025-05-22 22:26:19 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  prout
2025-05-22 22:26:20 <forthBot    > Unknown word: prout
2025-05-22 22:29:19 <xentrac     > it is a bug
2025-05-22 22:29:24 <xentrac     > forthBot: a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
2025-05-22 22:29:24 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:24 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:24 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:25 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:25 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:25 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:26 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:26 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:27 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:27 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:27 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:28 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:28 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:29 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:29 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:30 <xentrac     > a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
2025-05-22 22:29:30 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:36 <xentrac     > a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
2025-05-22 22:29:39 <xentrac     > see?
2025-05-22 22:29:41 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:42 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:42 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:43 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:43 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:44 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:44 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:45 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:45 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:46 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:47 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:47 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:47 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:48 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:48 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:49 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:49 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:29:50 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:30:55 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:30:55 <forthBot    > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:30:55 <t.fr        > Unknown word: a
2025-05-22 22:32:16 <cleobuline  > il will try