2025-05-29 00:00:13 <veltas      > tpbsd: Yeah?
2025-05-29 00:00:41 <xentrac     > but China hasn't been feudal for a surprisingly long time.  Qin Shi Huang really worked hard to destroy feudalism as a threat to his dynasty
2025-05-29 00:00:49 <anthk_      > tvfm (t3xforth) from https://t3x.org it's very fun to use
2025-05-29 00:00:49 <xentrac     > he didn't realize his son was an even bigger threat
2025-05-29 00:01:07 <tpbsd       > veltas, it transposes CMSIS-SVD register labels in the Forth source for absolute addresses on it's upload to the MCU, the source isnt changed
2025-05-29 00:01:50 <tpbsd       > veltas, It does this with only a SVD file for the mcu model
2025-05-29 00:02:25 <anthk_      > this on multitasking makes POSIX and semaphores and such a bit of a hell https://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/mtasking.html
2025-05-29 00:03:00 <tpbsd       > xentrac, which is why I dont use Chinese clones, they never have SVD files, but I embrace their development and think theyre a good thing
2025-05-29 00:03:23 <anthk_      > dumb simple compared to C89 (or maybe C99) and advanced programming under Unix Environment
2025-05-29 00:04:20 <tpbsd       > anthk_, simple is always best imho
2025-05-29 00:04:43 <xentrac     > tpbsd: what do the Chinese developers use instead?
2025-05-29 00:05:06 <tpbsd       > xentrac, nothing, they just have lots of doc
2025-05-29 00:05:32 <tpbsd       > I guess SVD is probably  proprietary, tho it's just XML
2025-05-29 00:05:49 <veltas      > I thought the swd2rl.pl would be Perl, based on the extension
2025-05-29 00:06:13 <tpbsd       > I simply cannot develop anything without a SVD, as cortex-m peripherals are far too complex
2025-05-29 00:06:22 <xentrac     > prolog?
2025-05-29 00:06:30 <veltas      > Python
2025-05-29 00:06:57 <tpbsd       > veltas, it is a Perl wrapper around a C program written by Jan Bramkamp named swd2
2025-05-29 00:07:11 <tpbsd       > oops
2025-05-29 00:07:17 <tpbsd       > ignore that
2025-05-29 00:07:40 <xentrac     > anthk_: you might like einkornix
2025-05-29 00:10:53 <tpbsd       > veltas, it made a mistake, you found it! it's actually swd2rl.py a python program, it's now deleted and fixed
2025-05-29 00:11:08 <veltas      > Well no harm done because of the shebang
2025-05-29 00:11:36 <tpbsd       > yeah, just me being old and doing too many things at once
2025-05-29 00:12:42 <tpbsd       > it is a Python wrapper around a C program written by Jan Bramkamp named swd2 which adds readline command history and command completion
2025-05-29 00:13:04 <tpbsd       > it works perfectly under the neovim :terminal
2025-05-29 00:13:30 <xentrac     > anthk_: http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/einkornix.S "simple cooperative task switching operating system for ARM EABI"
2025-05-29 00:13:39 <tpbsd       > (apart from a possible flowcontrol issue but that only affects uploads)
2025-05-29 00:14:11 <xentrac     > anthk_: example code in http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/einkornix-test.c, interface in http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/einkornix.h
2025-05-29 00:14:18 <xentrac     > I guess I should have linked the interface first
2025-05-29 00:14:27 <veltas      > Only the cool kids use .S files
2025-05-29 00:14:42 <xentrac     > it's a 34-instruction operating system
2025-05-29 00:16:00 <veltas      > Reminds me of Lua's coroutines
2025-05-29 00:16:19 <xentrac     > yeah, exactly, except that it maintains the list of tasks for you
2025-05-29 00:16:43 <veltas      > It's basically how I would implement threads in Forth if I had to
2025-05-29 00:16:50 <xentrac     > I also wrote a smaller version which is basically just 5 instructions, but it doesn't have APIs to create and exit processes: http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/monokokko.S
2025-05-29 00:16:57 <veltas      > And similar to what I've seen on polyforth
2025-05-29 00:17:00 <xentrac     > and it doesn't comply with the EABI so you can't use it from C
2025-05-29 00:18:28 <xentrac     > in μονοκοκκο you have to create your circular linked list of tasks by hand, maybe at assembly time
2025-05-29 00:19:08 <xentrac     > whereas einkornix lets you create and destroy them dynamically, though reclaiming the storage they used is up to you
2025-05-29 00:22:14 <veltas      > I often use linked lists in embedded code to rely on static pre-allocation of things that needs to be in a list
2025-05-29 00:22:20 <tpbsd       > veltas, this was the start of my Plang development https://mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/plang-v2-stm32f051.html#plang
2025-05-29 00:23:04 <xentrac     > veltas: yes, exactly
2025-05-29 00:23:26 <tpbsd       > it's awesome to see the embedded skillset here :) this chan used to be mainly Forth on PC stuff
2025-05-29 00:23:50 <xentrac     > I don't know if I have an embedded skillset just because I like writing ARM assembly
2025-05-29 00:24:01 <anthk_      > forth it's a better form of assembly
2025-05-29 00:24:29 <xentrac     > this breadboard here is looking at me with puppy dog eyes asking when I'm going to power it back up
2025-05-29 00:25:00 <xentrac     > I feel like Forth is closer to a scripting layer for assembly than a replacement for it
2025-05-29 00:25:17 <xentrac     > like, Tcl
2025-05-29 00:25:20 <xentrac     > only, embedded
2025-05-29 00:26:56 <tpbsd       > the advantage of Forth is the ease of embedded development. the negatives are image size and it's slower than assembly when running
2025-05-29 00:27:33 <tpbsd       > unless you use ... tada https://mecrisp-across-folkdoc.sourceforge.io/index.html
2025-05-29 00:27:42 <tpbsd       > thats another of my doc sites
2025-05-29 00:27:56 <tpbsd       > Mecrisp-Across is what you get if Forth and C had a baby
2025-05-29 00:28:41 <tpbsd       > all the advantages of Forth interactive development, all the advantages of compact assembly on the target
2025-05-29 00:29:41 <tpbsd       > the downside is the speed difference between the development system (emulation) and the actual target  standalone
2025-05-29 00:30:54 <tpbsd       > the dev system is currently 4x slower than the standalone target
2025-05-29 00:30:54 <tpbsd       > Mecrisp-Across is unique, there is nothing else like it in the world afaik
2025-05-29 03:06:02 <xentrac     > tpbsd: well, it's certainly true that the proof of the pudding is in the eating
2025-05-29 03:06:35 <tpbsd       > yeah, and I think it coes down to fundamental principles here
2025-05-29 03:07:08 <tpbsd       > for instance we need to measure the power going into a capacitor or coming out ?
2025-05-29 03:07:43 <xentrac     > but I don't agree that five and a half orders of magnitude is an insuperable range.  delta-sigma converters can handle that kind of thing with panache
2025-05-29 03:08:17 <tpbsd       > but measuring power coming out using ADC's has a time delay and resolution issue
2025-05-29 03:08:25 <tpbsd       > panache ?
2025-05-29 03:08:29 <xentrac     > ease
2025-05-29 03:08:40 <tpbsd       > I find them noisy and slow myself
2025-05-29 03:08:45 <xentrac     > what the BQ27200, which is not a BMS, does is that it amplifies the voltage drop across an external current-sensing resistor, with an internal capacitor across it, using a delta-sigma converter
2025-05-29 03:09:13 <xentrac     > which is a kind of ADC
2025-05-29 03:09:18 <tpbsd       > sure, thats a fairly typical method, nothing new to me there
2025-05-29 03:09:46 <tpbsd       > the external current sensing resistor is a problem in itself
2025-05-29 03:10:53 <tpbsd       > Ive found any small signal processes introdule all kinds of challenges
2025-05-29 03:10:53 <xentrac     > they do, yes
2025-05-29 03:11:04 <tpbsd       > ie noise and instability
2025-05-29 03:11:21 <xentrac     > offsets
2025-05-29 03:11:37 <xentrac     > even stable offsets can be a problem, I mean
2025-05-29 03:11:39 <tpbsd       > hence my attraction to counting pulses where one pulse represents a discrete amount of energy
2025-05-29 03:11:45 <tpbsd       > yeah
2025-05-29 03:13:43 <tpbsd       > the only weak point in the design is the comparitor that controls 'topping up' the capacitor, but I think I can design that fairly well using proven noise reduction techniques etc
2025-05-29 03:14:04 <tpbsd       > and use a fact comparitor
2025-05-29 03:14:08 <tpbsd       > fast
2025-05-29 03:14:40 <tpbsd       > at least I can test it fairly well with noise and spike injection
2025-05-29 03:15:51 <tpbsd       > it's going to be a interesting project, but the first part is to build one 'power injector' where I can accurately measure tiny values of power, reliably and accurately
2025-05-29 03:16:11 <tpbsd       > if I cant do that, I cant build the rest of it and will give up
2025-05-29 03:16:58 <tpbsd       > so first stake is a calibrated 'nano power' metering psu
2025-05-29 03:17:11 <tpbsd       > step
2025-05-29 03:20:35 <xentrac     > I wonder if you can borrow an SMU to calibrate against
2025-05-29 03:20:47 <xentrac     > I mean those are off-the-shelf calibrated nano-power metering PSUs
2025-05-29 03:21:03 <xentrac     > and you live in a developed country, so there's probably one in your state
2025-05-29 03:21:16 <xentrac     > maybe you can visit a lab and use it
2025-05-29 03:22:22 <tpbsd       > I think that a static measurement of nA and volts will do well enough
2025-05-29 03:22:37 <tpbsd       > I can use my in house equipment for that
2025-05-29 03:23:15 <xentrac     > you can probably measure a 10MΩ resistor to ±2% with a commonplace multimeter
2025-05-29 03:23:20 <tpbsd       > if accuracy is a issue, then Id search farther afield, but needing a lab to calibrate it would be a hassle
2025-05-29 03:23:25 <xentrac     > that would be 500nA across a 5V supply
2025-05-29 03:23:48 <xentrac     > I was thinking you might have a friend who has a friend who has a nice Keysight SMU you can use for an afternoon
2025-05-29 03:24:04 <xentrac     > but then there's precision and there's precision
2025-05-29 03:24:41 <tpbsd       > yeah, well the principle is the important part at this point, will it work or not
2025-05-29 03:24:50 <tpbsd       > accuracy comes later
2025-05-29 03:25:12 <xentrac     > this hardware store multimeter I have here can only measure down to a microamp, and probably has an error of 10μA or so, but it can measure volts to ±0.1% and probably ohms to 2%
2025-05-29 03:25:25 <xentrac     > including up to 20MΩ
2025-05-29 03:25:36 <xentrac     > some of them only go up to 2MΩ
2025-05-29 03:27:06 <xentrac     > anyway you can trust thin-film and thick-film resistors to be damned linear all the way down to zero volts
2025-05-29 03:27:55 <tpbsd       > yeah
2025-05-29 03:28:29 <xentrac     > so generating a few hundred precisely calibrated nanoamps should be pretty easy
2025-05-29 03:28:48 <tpbsd       > any idea how I can send a ^$ with pkill to a process ?
2025-05-29 03:28:59 <xentrac     > a ^$?
2025-05-29 03:29:01 <tpbsd       > ha, in theory
2025-05-29 03:29:04 <tpbsd       > yeah
2025-05-29 03:29:18 <xentrac     > caret pesos?
2025-05-29 03:29:40 <xentrac     > I was talking to Andrew Zonenberg about this the other day and he said, why don't you try charging up a supercap and then measuring how much its voltage has been reduced after a while?
2025-05-29 03:29:57 <xentrac     > I'm not sure how much I trust supercaps
2025-05-29 03:30:54 <tpbsd       > how is andrew ? we used to talk a lot, but havent after freenode went away
2025-05-29 03:31:12 <xentrac     > yeah, but I think that's okay if the internal leakage current is low compared to the average power you're trying to measure
2025-05-29 03:31:18 <tpbsd       > hes one super capable dude, made some awesome gear
2025-05-29 03:31:24 <tpbsd       > true
2025-05-29 03:31:25 <xentrac     > what i mean is I don't know if they have like soakage or hysteresis or things like that
2025-05-29 03:31:34 <tpbsd       > but it would be useless of nanoamps
2025-05-29 03:31:52 <xentrac     > if the leakage current is picoamps then nanoamps would be easy
2025-05-29 03:32:07 <xentrac     > if the leakage current is single-digit nanoamps then hundreds of nanoamps would be easy
2025-05-29 03:32:58 <tpbsd       > I think it's in the milliamps
2025-05-29 03:33:01 <xentrac     > I had thought about trying to do this but with a C0G/NP0 capacitor.  which would necessarily be much smaller
2025-05-29 03:33:29 <tpbsd       > I fel it's easier to measure the power going into rather than out of a cap
2025-05-29 03:33:45 <xentrac     > milliamps would be millivolts per second, a self-discharge time constant in the minutes.  I think supercaps have a self-discharge time constant measured in months or years
2025-05-29 03:34:12 <tpbsd       > especially as a comparitor is used to tell the psu 'supply power please'
2025-05-29 03:34:44 <tpbsd       > no, the ones Ive tested discharge in hours
2025-05-29 03:35:00 <xentrac     > so microamps, which is still too much
2025-05-29 03:35:05 <xentrac     > thanks for the tip!
2025-05-29 03:35:23 <tpbsd       > the very reason theyre a supercap is responsible for their high internal discharge
2025-05-29 03:35:37 <xentrac     > how so?
2025-05-29 03:36:04 <tpbsd       > the very close 'plates' result in higher leakage
2025-05-29 03:36:43 <tpbsd       > the opposite of two air gapped plates 1 foot apart, very low internal resistance, very low capacitance
2025-05-29 03:37:26 <xentrac     > that makes some sense.  but in this case there isn't an actual dielectric
2025-05-29 03:37:39 <tpbsd       > Ill be using a high quality electrolytic in my design
2025-05-29 03:38:03 <tpbsd       > something with low internal resistance
2025-05-29 03:38:44 <xentrac     > those don't have spectacularly low leakage either, do they?
2025-05-29 03:39:11 <tpbsd       > no, but as long as it's consistent, it can be calibrated out I guess
2025-05-29 03:39:53 <tpbsd       > tantalum would be best as they have very low leakage
2025-05-29 03:40:04 <tpbsd       > (when theyre not exploding)
2025-05-29 03:40:29 <xentrac     > that's nice too though
2025-05-29 03:40:33 <tpbsd       > of course polyester is the lowest leakage, but theyre low capacitance
2025-05-29 03:41:19 <tpbsd       > I think the trick is to use reliable parts that have minimal drift and just compensate for all that stuff
2025-05-29 03:41:23 <xentrac     > I think a high-voltage C0G operated at low voltage has lower leakage than polyester
2025-05-29 03:41:47 <xentrac     > and has much less thermal dependency
2025-05-29 03:42:35 <tpbsd       > Im not a expert there, I never needed much accuracy in my work, reliability was always more important fo me
2025-05-29 03:45:33 <xentrac     > I certainly am not either!
2025-05-29 03:46:38 <tpbsd       > accuracy is overated :)
2025-05-29 03:46:57 <tpbsd       > I spent years in instrumentation calibrating stuff
2025-05-29 03:47:31 <tpbsd       > using primary references
2025-05-29 03:48:14 <xentrac     > heh, too much objectivity wore you down?
2025-05-29 03:51:10 <tpbsd       > it's very boring
2025-05-29 03:51:24 <tpbsd       > I loved industrial control, lots of challenges
2025-05-29 03:52:24 <tpbsd       > I wrote the software in 1985 for my first industrial controller in machine code with a hex keypad
2025-05-29 03:52:57 <tpbsd       > that was very tiresome, when I finally got an assembler it was like christmas time!
2025-05-29 03:54:17 <xentrac     > yeah, I don't think I've ever hand-assembled anything except for CPU architectures I designed myself
2025-05-29 03:54:58 <xentrac     > although I have copied opcodes into a program and calculated jump offsets
2025-05-29 03:55:25 <xentrac     > then I figured out how to get gas to do that for me even for CPU architectures it didn't support natively and stopped doing that :)
2025-05-29 03:56:47 <xentrac     > because I was really tired of debugging miscalculated jump offsets.  I kept screwing it up!
2025-05-29 03:57:20 <tpbsd       > yeah jumps were the worst as they vary in offset depending on direction
2025-05-29 03:57:20 <tpbsd       > I was always screwing up there
2025-05-29 03:57:42 <tpbsd       > it was a dual 8085 bottle filling controller, 2000 bottles a day
2025-05-29 03:57:53 <tpbsd       > worked perfectly
2025-05-29 03:58:01 <xentrac     > nice
2025-05-29 03:58:45 <xentrac     > the only machine I ever had with a hex keypad was a Heathkit H-8
2025-05-29 03:58:56 <tpbsd       > then my next project was a position controller on a 68HC11 using a SWTP 6800 dev system with assembler on 8" floppy, that was a *dream* to use
2025-05-29 03:59:00 <xentrac     > it actuallly wasn't really a hex keypad, even though it had 16 keys
2025-05-29 03:59:05 <tpbsd       > ahh
2025-05-29 03:59:18 <xentrac     > it was an octal keypad, which you might have noticed is a lot more pleasant for 8080 code
2025-05-29 03:59:20 <tpbsd       > the device I used was a 8085 SDK
2025-05-29 03:59:46 <xentrac     > I mean it was a decimal keypad but the monitor program in the ROM was an octal monitor
2025-05-29 03:59:51 <tpbsd       > it also had led 7 seg displays
2025-05-29 03:59:58 <xentrac     > same same
2025-05-29 04:00:03 <tpbsd       > Ive never used octal
2025-05-29 04:00:05 <xentrac     > except the H-8 was an 8080
2025-05-29 04:00:17 <tpbsd       > ahh, a bit older gen
2025-05-29 04:00:18 <xentrac     > oh, well, the 8080 instruction set is a *lot* more comprehensible in octal
2025-05-29 04:00:24 <tpbsd       > ok
2025-05-29 04:00:45 <xentrac     > ARM is better in hex because it has 16 registers
2025-05-29 04:00:57 <tpbsd       > hahah, that SDK8085 was interesting
2025-05-29 04:00:58 <xentrac     > and most of the instruction fields are nibble-aligned
2025-05-29 04:01:35 <xentrac     > what was great about the HC11 system?  having an assembler?
2025-05-29 04:01:44 <tpbsd       > I just run Mecrisp-Stellaris on them and never mess with the cpu. Peripherals are my interest
2025-05-29 04:02:12 <tpbsd       > having an assembler for sure, but the 6800 ISA is a dream to work with
2025-05-29 04:02:25 <tpbsd       > the MSP430 is kind of similar
2025-05-29 04:02:35 <tpbsd       > bith are very different to ARM
2025-05-29 04:02:42 <xentrac     > I've heard it's nice, but my only experience with the 6800 family was on the 6809, and I was doing BASIC rather than asm
2025-05-29 04:02:55 <xentrac     > so I couldn't even tell it was 6809
2025-05-29 04:03:08 <tpbsd       > Ive never programmed for a 6809 tho I hear it was great
2025-05-29 04:03:24 <tpbsd       > they were too expensive for me and I didnt need the power
2025-05-29 04:03:46 <tpbsd       > a 6802 did all I needed
2025-05-29 04:04:01 <tpbsd       > or a 8085 tho I hate all Intel ISA
2025-05-29 04:05:38 <xentrac     > haha, Intel chips aren't very nice
2025-05-29 04:05:46 <xentrac     > the 80386 got a lot better though
2025-05-29 04:05:47 <tpbsd       > gahh! finally found my error!
2025-05-29 04:06:15 <tpbsd       > whats wrong with "pkill -QUIT ./swd2" ?
2025-05-29 04:06:32 <tpbsd       > <doh Im so dumb>
2025-05-29 04:06:49 <tpbsd       > it's the "./"
2025-05-29 04:07:13 <xentrac     > oh!
2025-05-29 04:07:43 <xentrac     > I didn't understand the ^$ part
2025-05-29 04:07:58 <tpbsd       > once swd2 has been executed in it's subdir with "./swd2" to send it a signal from anywhere else only needs the process name !
2025-05-29 04:08:25 <tpbsd       > Ill wear a dunce hat today!
2025-05-29 04:08:50 <xentrac     > I don't think I've used pkill myself
2025-05-29 04:13:05 <tpbsd       > it's used to send a signal to swd2, telling it to upload a file to the Forth mcu
2025-05-29 04:13:12 <xentrac     > right
2025-05-29 04:13:20 <tpbsd       > crest designed, evilly clever
2025-05-29 04:13:20 <xentrac     > I figured it was something like that
2025-05-29 04:13:38 <xentrac     > but you could just hit ^\ in the window where swd2 is running?
2025-05-29 04:13:39 <tpbsd       > xentrac, and the most awesome part of swd2 ?
2025-05-29 04:14:10 <tpbsd       > xentrac, you know how if you have a Forth mcu, perhaps it's blinking a led at 1000 khz ?
2025-05-29 04:14:31 <xentrac     > sure
2025-05-29 04:14:42 <tpbsd       > but you decide to insert a print statement of the loop variable just to see it in action ?
2025-05-29 04:14:51 <tpbsd       > or to debug, whatever
2025-05-29 04:15:08 <xentrac     > and suddenly it's 1 kHz?
2025-05-29 04:15:13 <xentrac     > because it's waiting on the serial port
2025-05-29 04:15:17 <tpbsd       > and it totally kills the program because of the delays the print proces causes ?
2025-05-29 04:15:26 <tpbsd       > bingo!
2025-05-29 04:15:42 <xentrac     > so what you really want is a nonblocking FIFO of log messages or something
2025-05-29 04:15:59 <tpbsd       > or ...
2025-05-29 04:16:18 <tpbsd       > to use the cortex-m DEBUG peripheral via SWD
2025-05-29 04:16:47 <tpbsd       > Crest added a 512 char buffer to the mcu and the pc term, and theyre in sync
2025-05-29 04:17:13 <xentrac     > but now you need to handle flow control ;)
2025-05-29 04:17:22 <tpbsd       > xentrac, so I can send up to 512 chars to the terminal via a print and there *is no overhead* !
2025-05-29 04:17:26 <xentrac     > because eventually that buffer gets full
2025-05-29 04:17:43 <tpbsd       > crest took care of all that stuff
2025-05-29 04:18:34 <tpbsd       > the wierd part is that a full screen of text appears, but it was over in undr micro seconds, long before the terminal printed anything
2025-05-29 04:18:43 <xentrac     > sure
2025-05-29 04:18:55 <xentrac     > I mean that happens with oscilloscopes too, right?
2025-05-29 04:19:06 <tpbsd       > yeah I guess
2025-05-29 04:19:08 <xentrac     > not so much the analog ones but the digital ones
2025-05-29 04:19:25 <tpbsd       > our human perception gets confused
2025-05-29 04:20:00 <tpbsd       > so with swdcom I can have all the prints I want and the program isnt slowed down waiting for a usart
2025-05-29 04:20:11 <tpbsd       > *debugging nirvana*
2025-05-29 04:20:27 <xentrac     > but surely you can print stuff to that buffer faster than you can read it over JTAG?
2025-05-29 04:21:17 <tpbsd       > I guess but as long as it's under 255 chars thats ok
2025-05-29 04:21:49 <tpbsd       > and it's SWD which is way faster than jtag in my experience
2025-05-29 04:22:01 <tpbsd       > tho theyre kind of the same thing
2025-05-29 04:22:28 <tpbsd       > except SWD doesnt have all the stuff that jtag has (I think)
2025-05-29 04:23:09 <tpbsd       > Segger do the same with their expensive gear, tho they make a big fuss about it
2025-05-29 04:23:23 <tpbsd       > but we get it for free with Mecrisp-Stellaris and swdcom
2025-05-29 04:23:41 <xentrac     > I guess I'm confused about the relationship between SWD and JTAG
2025-05-29 04:23:52 <xentrac     > I thought SWD was like JTAG with less pins
2025-05-29 04:24:00 <tpbsd       > I think the eyes would pop out of the heads of C GDB users if they saw this in action
2025-05-29 04:25:15 <tpbsd       > I think the distinction is swd is meant for comms and reading/writing registers, memory but jtag was also meant for testing peripherals using special proprietary stuff
2025-05-29 04:26:42 <tpbsd       > with SWD being used for development but JTAG used in production testing devices in manufacturing ?
2025-05-29 04:34:01 <tpbsd       > xentrac, I also found that neovim does do USB  flowcontrol ! it works perectly with swd2, the problem comes from the python wrapper
2025-05-29 05:12:25 <xentrac     > I think you can use JTAG for a lot of things.  usually it's pretty slow
2025-05-29 05:12:45 <xentrac     > that's great news!  The Python wrapper was what was failing to do the flow control?
2025-05-29 05:33:15 <tpbsd       > yes, I havent looked into why, but thats the issue for sure
2025-05-29 09:03:39 <veltas      > Anyone else remember the glory days before IT departments ruled over our productivity with an iron fist?
2025-05-29 09:11:05 <tpbsd       > yeah, but that was before IT existed, back in the 70's :)
2025-05-29 09:11:33 <tpbsd       > but we had imcompetent directors to make up for it
2025-05-29 09:14:40 <veltas      > At my company we basically had an IT dept that only had time to fix our machines, and configure networks, a number of years ago
2025-05-29 09:16:38 <tpbsd       > yeah thats how they usually start
2025-05-29 09:17:39 <veltas      > And then we got a lot of corporate security rules that seemed to make more sense for a normal office than a place where we literally make and program computers from scratch
2025-05-29 09:18:35 <veltas      > It's really driven by security standards and regulation, and it's not done much good preventing e.g. our major shops from all getting pwned recently
2025-05-29 09:18:54 <veltas      > But if people are looking for national productivity sinks, there's one
2025-05-29 09:19:50 <veltas      > major shops I mean Marks & Spencers etc, not our 'workshops'
2025-05-29 09:31:37 <tpbsd       > shame
2025-05-29 09:33:58 <veltas      > xentrac: Argentina mention https://thedailywtf.com/articles/format-identified
2025-05-29 09:34:12 <veltas      > I say as if Argentina is a small village or something
2025-05-29 12:32:48 <xentrac     > veltas: I have a file with the CUIT of everybody in Argentina, as if Argentina were a small village or something
2025-05-29 12:33:04 <xentrac     > they're a matter of public record; my wife uses the file for her accounting work
2025-05-29 12:44:49 <veltas      > Nice
2025-05-29 13:39:25 <olle        > Building a simple graph database with a Forth-like interface to not have to google same thing over and over
2025-05-29 13:40:06 <olle        > https://old.reddit.com/r/PKMS/comments/1kvt7ht/entityattributerelation_local_database_system/
2025-05-29 13:41:33 <anthk_      > today I tried to use emwm with Motif stuff and such, but I don't need them; cwm and some xterm it's more than enough for Forth
2025-05-29 13:43:57 <veltas      > I've said before I consider terminal harder than a GUI if you just want some text and basic interactivity
2025-05-29 13:44:04 <veltas      > Unless you literally want a REPL or something
2025-05-29 14:02:49 <xentrac     > olle: heh!
2025-05-29 14:17:23 <olle        > But I'm cheating a bit, making all word definitions in PHP :P
2025-05-29 15:22:34 <cleobuline  > xentrac:  -> https://labynet.fr/xentrac.mp4
2025-05-29 16:58:11 <xentrac     > this guy can't find his keyboard
2025-05-29 16:58:27 <xentrac     > also, I think he's French, because he has cigarettes
2025-05-29 17:34:01 <MrMobius    > haha, I just spent all morning implementing s\" for my calculator forth and just realized it doesnt have a \ key
2025-05-29 18:00:35 <xentrac     > haha
2025-05-29 19:49:17 <cleobuline  > command shift /
2025-05-29 19:50:00 <cleobuline  > \`òption shift / pardon
2025-05-29 19:51:06 <xentrac     > yclept: art thou yclept yclept?
2025-05-29 19:53:22 <yclept      > seems that way, paraventure
2025-05-29 19:54:18 <xentrac     > 
ACTION traverses the dictionary looking for an unsmudged yclept