2025-06-02 00:06:24 <tpbsd       > veltas, thanks!
2025-06-02 00:07:17 <tpbsd       > it's a lot like using C instead of Assembler with no includes file
2025-06-02 00:08:04 <tpbsd       > and it saves space in small embedded because it doesnt use constants to link the labels to the absolute addresses
2025-06-02 00:09:51 <tpbsd       > so the programmer gets all the easy stuff like alphanumeric labels that are CMSIS-SVD compatible, and the mcu gets 'magic numbers' which are a no-no for maintainable small embeddedForth code
2025-06-02 00:10:17 <tpbsd       > the mcu doesnt understand or want all the human stuff
2025-06-02 00:29:26 <veltas      > Very true
2025-06-02 00:31:27 <tpbsd       > I tried converting that source to absolute addresses manually using my other project "svd2db" and it's horrendous, I gave up after 1/2 hr as it was very tiresome
2025-06-02 00:32:18 <tpbsd       > I wanted to obtain a memory usage reading for Plang2 and manual coding, but it's just too hard
2025-06-02 10:56:45 <anthk_      > morning
2025-06-02 10:57:20 <anthk_      > thanks for the editor, veltas
2025-06-02 10:57:38 <anthk_      > I'm so fed up of the pfe block support that I use forth-scr to convert text files into blocks
2025-06-02 10:58:15 <anthk_      > ttps://github.com/ablevm/forth-scr
2025-06-02 10:58:17 <anthk_      > https://github.com/ablevm/forth-scr
2025-06-02 10:58:34 <anthk_      > I did a template with unix sh and that's it, just two for loops redirecting to a text file
2025-06-02 10:59:13 <anthk_      > https://termbin.com/9emw
2025-06-02 11:07:21 <identity    > anthk_: [[ ]] is bash, not sh</pedantic>
2025-06-02 11:09:01 <anthk_      > it works under ksh
2025-06-02 11:09:54 <identity    > well, some gcc extensions work under clang too
2025-06-02 11:10:09 <anthk_      > but thanks, I fixed it
2025-06-02 11:19:01 <anthk_      > also I forgot about -lt | -gt instead of redirecting commands, I'm dumb
2025-06-02 11:19:05 <anthk_      > it's monday :p
2025-06-02 11:20:44 <anthk_      > https://termbin.com/pp68
2025-06-02 11:21:20 <anthk_      > I must confess that I alternate between Forth and Lisp in order to not get bored with either
2025-06-02 11:22:15 <anthk_      > not scheme nor common lisp, but zenlisp from http://t3x.org, because scheme it's fine but I've got bored with the "Concrete Abastraction book", at least with one chapter
2025-06-02 11:22:38 <anthk_      > and Common Lisp has cool stuff but the 'loop' construction can be more complex than the whole Forth itself
2025-06-02 11:22:41 <anthk_      > I am not kidding
2025-06-02 11:23:00 <anthk_      > 'loop' might be Turing complete by itself
2025-06-02 11:23:55 <identity    > lisp, the bad parts: loop and format
2025-06-02 11:24:32 <anthk_      > identity: common lisp, yes; scheme it's easier
2025-06-02 12:29:14 <veltas      > anthk_: I'm the same, I alternate mostly to C
2025-06-02 12:35:33 <deadmarshal_> CL is so bloated compared to Scheme.
2025-06-02 15:12:46 <veltas      > anthk_: Shame zelgomer's not in here because he had some good tips for using shell to convert between blocks/files
2025-06-02 15:14:18 <xentrac     > he got too enthusiastic about politics and death threats
2025-06-02 15:15:22 <veltas      > Leave off dead horses
2025-06-02 15:16:42 <xentrac     > as long as it's only dead horses and not dead people, we're doing fine
2025-06-02 15:17:31 <xentrac     > I'd just as soon not have people around who are threatening other channel members with death based on their guesses about political alignment
2025-06-02 15:28:04 <crc         > good morning
2025-06-02 15:29:12 <xentrac     > hiya
2025-06-02 15:30:09 <xentrac     > hooray, dpans is back!
2025-06-02 15:30:57 <crc         > sorry, forgot to restart it after the openbsd 7.7 upgrade completed :(
2025-06-02 15:34:06 <xentrac     > it's probably unusual to put IRC bots in /etc/rc and family
2025-06-02 15:37:44 <crc         > I'll probably set them up as proper daemons at some point
2025-06-02 15:47:21 <anthk_      > veltas: I just use forth-scr for that
2025-06-02 15:47:39 <anthk_      > altough maybe dd would suffice, or xxd, or plain printf
2025-06-02 15:47:47 <anthk_      > or sed/awk
2025-06-02 15:49:47 <vms14       > how it was to use the dpans bot?
2025-06-02 15:50:03 <xentrac     > I wrote http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/blk2unix.py for converting in one direction
2025-06-02 15:50:13 <veltas      > anthk_: Try fold command maybe, for converting a block to file
2025-06-02 15:50:29 <veltas      > I seem to remember that was one of the good suggestions
2025-06-02 15:50:54 <xentrac     > dd does have some options that seem relevant but I don't remember if I was able to get it to provide useful output
2025-06-02 15:51:18 <xentrac     > but I wanted the shadow screens alongside
2025-06-02 15:51:23 <anthk_      > https://github.com/ablevm/forth-scr
2025-06-02 15:51:26 <xentrac     > and dd definitely can't do that
2025-06-02 15:51:54 <veltas      > dd is rightly hated
2025-06-02 15:52:41 <veltas      > I had the great idea of using dd for modifying binary files once, and after a big rabbit hole it turns out that it claims to modify one byte and then just modifies loads after that as well
2025-06-02 15:52:55 <xentrac     > really?  I'd never heard of that
2025-06-02 15:53:05 <veltas      > So don't use 1 byte at a time, it claims to support it and doesn't
2025-06-02 15:53:29 <veltas      > And if it can't do that what can it do, I need to trust the commands I use with my important data
2025-06-02 15:53:37 <anthk_      > which dd? gnu dd or bsd?
2025-06-02 15:53:57 <anthk_      > also bear in mind dd has many options for files with holes and such
2025-06-02 15:54:03 <veltas      > GNU I think
2025-06-02 15:54:11 <veltas      > But it's a POSIX standard so should be same everywhere
2025-06-02 15:54:14 <veltas      > Unfortunately it's not
2025-06-02 15:54:43 <anthk_      > conv=notrunc maybe?
2025-06-02 15:55:02 <xentrac     > dd cbs=64 conv=unblock if=hanoi.blk seems to do the right thing
2025-06-02 15:55:18 <veltas      > anthk_: Maybe yeah
2025-06-02 15:55:58 <xentrac     > I'd never heard of anyone having problems using dd but generally people only use it for writing disks
2025-06-02 15:56:11 <veltas      > Certainly that's what it's *for*
2025-06-02 15:56:37 <xentrac     > it's also for converting between EBCDIC and ASCII or swapping bytes apparently
2025-06-02 15:56:47 <veltas      > today I learn
2025-06-02 17:36:47 <anthk_      > uhm, after some thinkering, I'll use eforth under subleq/muxleq for starting forth exercises
2025-06-02 17:37:36 <anthk_      > as I enabled do...loop, it might work for the 99% of the online book
2025-06-02 17:38:00 <anthk_      > on blocks, I have them... but in subleq's RMA
2025-06-02 17:38:01 <anthk_      > RAM
2025-06-02 17:38:13 <anthk_      > but well, I can fill them with the 'editor' word, so it's fine
2025-06-02 17:38:57 <hello-operator> You could modify the VM so it automatically saves the image on exit
2025-06-02 17:42:16 <hello-operator> I think colorForth did something similar, "BLOCK" was defined as ": BLOCK 1024 * ;" (or whatever the colorForth equivalent is)
2025-06-02 17:42:37 <hello-operator> And you would just save everything at the end
2025-06-02 17:44:33 <anthk_      > hello-operator: https://github.com/howerj/muxleq
2025-06-02 17:44:40 <anthk_      > it's that, nothing fancy, subleq but with multiplex
2025-06-02 17:45:21 <anthk_      > altough with a custom DEC image, not the base; I enabled float (altough I don't use it a lot), do...loop and a better 'see'
2025-06-02 17:45:48 <anthk_      > at the muxleq.fth file, at the top, there are variables
2025-06-02 17:45:58 <anthk_      > then: pforth < muxleq.fth > muxleq2.dec
2025-06-02 17:46:07 <anthk_      > sorry, not pforth, pfe
2025-06-02 17:49:07 <anthk_      > ah, muxleq must be created from itslef. Long wait for older machines, but much faster than subleq.
2025-06-02 17:49:11 <hello-operator> Hmmm, if you combine https://github.com/howerj/muxleq/blob/master/muxleq.c with https://github.com/howerj/ffs/blob/master/subleq.c you'll get what you want
2025-06-02 17:49:23 <anthk_      > yes, I did that, but I dpn't need a whole FS
2025-06-02 17:49:42 <hello-operator> You only need the different subleq.c VM
2025-06-02 17:49:50 <hello-operator> It saves the image
2025-06-02 17:50:30 <hello-operator> The makefile shows how to use it
2025-06-02 17:51:24 <anthk_      > uhm wait
2025-06-02 17:52:03 <hello-operator> Sorry, you only need the different subleq.c not the entire ffs thing, take the code from that and add the muxleq stuff
2025-06-02 17:52:38 <anthk_      > I could add the same to muxleq, it's just open a file at argv 2 right?
2025-06-02 17:53:22 <anthk_      > muxleq it's just subleq with the mux if added
2025-06-02 17:53:47 <hello-operator> Not quite, it dumps the memory to the final file in the argv list so long as there is at least one file
2025-06-02 17:54:07 <hello-operator> "./subleq file.dec" would not save anything
2025-06-02 17:54:40 <anthk_      > ./muxleq new.dec disk.dec
2025-06-02 17:54:40 <hello-operator> but "./subleq file.dec new.dec" would, as would "./subleq file-1.dec file-2.dec new.dec"
2025-06-02 17:54:52 <anthk_      > and then reuse disk.dec as the normal muxleq file?
2025-06-02 17:55:04 <hello-operator> yeah, that's what's in the makefile
2025-06-02 17:55:09 <anthk_      > ah interesting
2025-06-02 17:55:39 <hello-operator> I guess it's because if it is running andd you hit CTRL-C it will not save as the mv command is never run
2025-06-02 17:55:44 <anthk_      > it's kafkesque, eforth under subleq working more 'reliabily' than pfe
2025-06-02 17:55:59 <anthk_      > brb
2025-06-02 17:58:12 <xentrac     > anthk_: subleq is simple; consequently you'd expect it to be reliable, wouldn't you?
2025-06-02 18:02:01 <hello-operator> as muxleq has two instructions, logically it must be twice as unreliable :D
2025-06-02 18:03:23 <anthk_      > you laugh, but it works
2025-06-02 18:05:54 <hello-operator> what problems are you having with pfe?
2025-06-02 18:07:08 <hello-operator> i've never used it, so i don't know how it compares
2025-06-02 18:08:15 <anthk_      > sometimes the open block get lost after editing
2025-06-02 18:08:24 <anthk_      > pfe tells me that I can't find my file anymore
2025-06-02 18:08:45 <anthk_      > ok, muxleq working with the HD file
2025-06-02 18:09:00 <anthk_      > this like a zen or something
2025-06-02 18:10:44 <hello-operator> ah right, so it's just the block layer that is the problem?
2025-06-02 18:11:02 <hello-operator> that's good it works
2025-06-02 18:12:30 <anthk_      > I mean, I use open-blockfile foo.blk
2025-06-02 18:12:32 <anthk_      > I launch
2025-06-02 18:12:37 <anthk_      > edit-blockfile foo.blk
2025-06-02 18:12:48 <anthk_      > I edit something, I run flush
2025-06-02 18:13:16 <anthk_      > and later I run edit-blockfile foo.blk and pfe tells me that I can't open it, even by using open-blockfile
2025-06-02 18:14:17 <anthk_      > it tells me 'non-existent file'
2025-06-02 18:21:38 <hello-operator> I can't even get it to compile (PFE) at the moment, not that I'm making a huge effort
2025-06-02 18:48:50 <anthk_      > OS?
2025-06-02 19:02:55 <hello-operator> Ubuntu x86_64, ugghhh, now which version...
2025-06-02 19:15:16 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  LOAD ini.fth
2025-06-02 19:15:16 <forthBot    > File ini.fth with date loaded
2025-06-02 19:15:24 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  DATE
2025-06-02 19:15:24 <forthBot    > Mon June  2 19:15:24 CEST 2025
2025-06-02 19:18:21 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  PRINT-TIME
2025-06-02 19:18:26 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  PRINT-TIME  CR
2025-06-02 19:18:26 <forthBot    > 19:18:2119:18:26
2025-06-02 19:18:30 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  PRINT-TIME  CR
2025-06-02 19:18:31 <forthBot    > 19:18:31
2025-06-02 19:23:30 <xentrac     > I mentioned the channel on Character Assassination News today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44155635#44157519
2025-06-02 19:26:51 <crc         > xentrac: might be good to edit to ##forth; some irc clients don't handle the redirection from #forth properly
2025-06-02 20:27:37 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  LOAD "ini.fth"
2025-06-02 20:27:37 <forthBot    > File ini.fth with moon loaded
2025-06-02 20:27:45 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  MOON
2025-06-02 20:27:45 <forthBot    > Phase de la lune pour Mon June  2 2025
2025-06-02 20:27:45 <forthBot    >     🌓  Premier quartier
2025-06-02 20:27:46 <forthBot    >     Premier quartier, la lune guide vos soirées !
2025-06-02 20:41:53 <cleobuline  > forth:  LOAD "ini.fth"
2025-06-02 20:41:56 <cleobuline  > forth: MOON
2025-06-02 21:22:08 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  QUIT
2025-06-02 21:22:08 <forthBot    > Environment for cleobuline has been freed.
2025-06-02 21:22:20 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  LOAD ini.fth
2025-06-02 21:22:20 <forthBot    > File ini.fth with moon loaded
2025-06-02 21:22:25 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  MOON
2025-06-02 21:22:26 <forthBot    > Phase de la lune pour Mon June  2 2025
2025-06-02 21:22:26 <forthBot    >     🌒  Croissant montant
2025-06-02 21:22:26 <forthBot    >     Une jeune lune, un nouveau depart a Paris !
2025-06-02 21:22:27 <forthBot    > 45% illuminee
2025-06-02 21:25:36 <xentrac     > crc: sorry, too late to edit
2025-06-02 21:27:00 <crc         > ok, wasn't sure what the limits are on hn
2025-06-02 21:35:44 <veltas      > xentrac what are you talking about re character assassination
2025-06-02 21:36:30 <veltas      > I've said before anyone in the UK, or who can work for the UK, who isn't Russian, Chinese etc can send CVs to me
2025-06-02 21:38:04 <veltas      > I work in embedded mostly writing firmware for embedded controllers, Intel and ARM SoCs; can potentially refer you if you're good
2025-06-02 21:38:14 <veltas      > That said I don't think we have any openings at the moment
2025-06-02 21:43:37 <xentrac     > 2 hours
2025-06-02 21:43:56 <xentrac     > veltas: oh, that's just what I call the site
2025-06-02 21:44:28 <xentrac     > because three or four comments down in any thread you can always find people calling each other "disingenuous", "trolls", "LLMs", etc.
2025-06-02 21:46:07 <xentrac     > it's unusual to see things like "commie"
2025-06-02 22:02:13 <veltas      > I've noticed the most prolific HN users tend to deride the site the most, personally I think the site's pretty good despite some bad users
2025-06-02 22:02:41 <veltas      > Then again I've frequented 4chan for many years so my benchmarks might be different
2025-06-02 22:09:06 <veltas      > The content's often interesting/insightful, but for some reason there's a competition to be as negative as possible about the site and talk about it in euphamisms
2025-06-02 22:31:48 <tpbsd       > veltas, don't discounts attempts by certain groups to 'cancel' this ch
2025-06-02 22:32:18 <tpbsd       > veltas, some people just hate everything they dont own
2025-06-02 22:32:41 <tpbsd       > in the olf days we used to call them 'trolls'
2025-06-02 22:35:38 <veltas      > To add context tpbsd, I am talking about the website news.ycombinator.com, not this channel
2025-06-02 22:36:45 <tpbsd       > oops
2025-06-02 22:37:53 <tpbsd       > apologies for talking out of turn
2025-06-02 22:45:00 <veltas      > No need to apologise
2025-06-02 22:52:25 <tpbsd       > veltas, well my Neovim Mecrisp-Stellaris IDE is working very well and I've found a bug in my Plang2 system already, looks like a character escape problem which I would not have found so easily were the IDE not based on nvim
2025-06-02 22:54:04 <tpbsd       > Plang intelligently creates Forth statements based on the cmsis-svd bitfield 'Access Rights' as theyre one of three types as youd know
2025-06-02 22:54:38 <tpbsd       > ie no point creating a read statement for a write only bitfield
2025-06-02 22:55:41 <veltas      > Have you got any projects planned to test this IDE?
2025-06-02 22:55:51 <veltas      > Maybe you should upload a video demo to YouTube
2025-06-02 23:02:15 <tpbsd       > veltas, yes all the above
2025-06-02 23:02:50 <tpbsd       > Ive made a thermoter using the LMT01 two term digital sensor chip using it
2025-06-02 23:02:56 <tpbsd       > thermometer
2025-06-02 23:09:03 <tpbsd       > this pic shows it reading the thermometer in the terminal https://sourceforge.net/projects/mecrisp-stellaris-folkdoc/files/plang2-lmt01-5.png
2025-06-02 23:22:13 <veltas      > Nice
2025-06-02 23:22:26 <forthBot    > Environment for cleobuline inactive, freeing...
2025-06-02 23:47:45 <veltas      > Programming is actually quite hard, don't let anyone say otherwise
2025-06-02 23:58:08 <tpbsd       > veltas, it does get interesting when one is building advanced software tools for development use
2025-06-02 23:59:19 <tpbsd       > so now I will have to raise a trouble ticket on this bug, I think one of my parsers is deleting the appending '@' on a transform