2026-03-21 02:04:30 <KipIngram   > Well, I think Chuck once said outright that what it took to "be Forth" was to be stack-oriented and to have colon definitions.
2026-03-21 02:04:41 <KipIngram   > That's a pretty wide net, actually.
2026-03-21 02:05:00 <KipIngram   > But I'm an embedded guy, so my interest is mostly on controlling hardware.
2026-03-21 02:06:37 <tpbsd       > same, but chuck built Forth for embedded use initially, controlling telescope positioning motors etc at Kitt Peak
2026-03-21 02:07:47 <tpbsd       > he didnt design Forth as a general programming language, tho every pure programmer who doesnt know electronics (and build electronic projects) naturally thinks he did
2026-03-21 02:10:15 <vms14       > i want to control the browser
2026-03-21 02:16:47 <tpbsd       > vms14, isnt it already under control ? ;-)
2026-03-21 02:18:25 <tpbsd       > Im pretty sure that microsoft was found guilty of breaking the Sherman Act by the DOJ becase they wanted to control the browser also :)
2026-03-21 02:18:27 <vms14       > yeah i guess i just enjoy making random interpreters and with the browser i can play with gui apps and stuff
2026-03-21 02:20:08 <tpbsd       > why not perhaps you can inject new life into the browser
2026-03-21 02:47:19 <vms14       > i want to try with gamedev :D
2026-03-21 02:47:40 <vms14       > i'm yet making a repl for the browser
2026-03-21 02:50:06 <tpbsd       > iirc vimb (browser) has a repl
2026-03-21 02:50:16 <tpbsd       > or at least a cli
2026-03-21 05:24:45 <vms14       > now i have some sort of repl, although it's not a standalone repl
2026-03-21 05:24:49 <vms14       > https://vms14.gitlab.io/oh/oh.html
2026-03-21 05:24:52 <vms14       > the code is
2026-03-21 05:24:57 <vms14       > https://vms14.gitlab.io/oh/repl.oh
2026-03-21 05:25:32 <vms14       > it opens a textarea with ctrl + enter and evaluates the text with ctrl + enter again
2026-03-21 05:25:40 <vms14       > the stack is shown with ctrl + s
2026-03-21 05:26:38 <vms14       > i guess is too weird for anyone, even forth devs since being stack based does not mean it has to do anything with forth
2026-03-21 05:26:56 <vms14       > and all that gibberish is random stuff i invented on the fly xd
2026-03-21 05:27:57 <vms14       > and i should not waste time documenting it either
2026-03-21 13:16:18 <KipIngram   > Well, I think I've pointed out before that creating any sort of system that's consistent and works the way you intended it to is educational.  You always learn something in the doing.
2026-03-21 13:16:59 <KipIngram   > My guess is that there are things about it you like and maybe some things you don't, and that can all get rolled into your next system.
2026-03-21 13:19:18 <KipIngram   > So maybe what you've done isn't what I'd have done, but so what?  You still did something, and that's a good thing.
2026-03-21 15:18:08 <veltas      > vms14: Why not just Enter instead of Ctrl+Enter?
2026-03-21 15:18:15 <veltas      > That one is hard to get my head round
2026-03-21 15:18:26 <veltas      > CTRL+S is fine for stack though
2026-03-21 15:18:33 <veltas      > Since you probably don't need to do that that often
2026-03-21 15:19:14 <veltas      > What does (( do?
2026-03-21 15:22:47 <vms14       > veltas: because it is meant to be used while the app is running in order to prototype or test random stuff
2026-03-21 15:23:18 <vms14       > ( is a list and (( is a nested list, i guess that's on the style word, it takes a list of lists as css and also a name
2026-03-21 15:24:03 <vms14       > ah you meant to send, to be able to have multiple lines
2026-03-21 15:24:29 <vms14       > the textarea grows, i should add some basic line editing features
2026-03-21 15:24:44 <vms14       > has history with ctrl up down
2026-03-21 15:26:00 <vms14       > i should have implemented case before doing the repl and avoid those nested ifs
2026-03-21 15:29:45 <vms14       > KipIngram: yeah it's something weird, but it makes me learn a lot of stuff
2026-03-21 15:30:07 <vms14       > and with the time becomes a bit more useful, but still harder than any other mainstream lang
2026-03-21 15:30:40 <vms14       > what i notice a bit is that it's faster for prototyping and should not rely on js anymore once i get a few primitives
2026-03-21 15:31:29 <vms14       > i also have to get used to it, this is why i was asking for forth exercises and alike, but i will just use it
2026-03-21 15:37:54 <veltas      > It's just really hard to not press Enter at the end of input instead of Ctrl + Enter
2026-03-21 15:38:11 <veltas      > And is there an advantage to multiple lines?  How often do you do that?
2026-03-21 15:38:34 <veltas      > I'd say it makes more sense to use Shift+Enter or Ctrl+Enter for adding extra lines without sending
2026-03-21 15:38:57 <veltas      > That's how e.g. Teams and most apps I've used where you don't typically want multiple lines works
2026-03-21 15:39:46 <veltas      > When I added two empty lists together it produced an empty string... what's going on?
2026-03-21 15:42:31 <veltas      > Is there a tutorial / manual / help / WORDS ?
2026-03-21 15:43:58 <vms14       > veltas: do you want a tutorial? :0
2026-03-21 15:44:15 <vms14       > i could document the whole thing but would take like 1000 lines of text
2026-03-21 15:44:29 <vms14       > i can add a words word though
2026-03-21 15:45:22 <vms14       > i could spend some time documenting it properly
2026-03-21 15:45:38 <vms14       > although i have to learn to document stuff so it won't be good
2026-03-21 15:45:47 <vms14       > and will be boring to read i guess
2026-03-21 15:46:01 <veltas      > Would WORDS be short to implement in your system?
2026-03-21 15:46:07 <veltas      > And work with it as it is now?
2026-03-21 15:46:16 <vms14       > i have a readme that meh
2026-03-21 15:46:18 <vms14       > https://gitlab.com/vms14/oh
2026-03-21 15:46:24 <veltas      > The source code is relatively readable
2026-03-21 15:46:26 <vms14       > i'm implementing it right now :D
2026-03-21 15:46:30 <veltas      > So you moved away from Perl then?
2026-03-21 15:48:50 <vms14       > i like perl better for prototyping
2026-03-21 15:49:05 <vms14       > but if i want to actually use the lang the browser is cooler
2026-03-21 15:49:18 <vms14       > and at the end it is my target anyways
2026-03-21 15:50:27 <vms14       > now there is a words word, it pushes a list of words on the stack
2026-03-21 15:51:40 <vms14       > i'll try to document it and tell you when i have something veltas
2026-03-21 15:51:54 <vms14       > but it will be hard to read i guess xd
2026-03-21 15:52:08 <vms14       > i have to learn how to present information better
2026-03-21 15:52:21 <vms14       > so it's good if i practice then
2026-03-21 15:59:36 <veltas      > You don't have to
2026-03-21 15:59:48 <veltas      > But if you want people to play then they'll find it easier with some sort of manual
2026-03-21 15:59:54 <veltas      > But to be fair the source makes enough sense
2026-03-21 16:02:50 <veltas      > Like konilo for instance has a built in manual that it tells you how to access when you start the environment
2026-03-21 16:03:52 <vms14       > the thing is that i do not expect to have any users and is a personal toy project, i assume for other people is not interesting or too weird
2026-03-21 16:04:29 <vms14       > at the end you will be questioning why using this lang or spending time learning about it and there is no reason
2026-03-21 16:05:06 <vms14       > more than looking a weird picture in a museum made from a crazy person
2026-03-21 16:07:02 <veltas      > What do you want from this?
2026-03-21 16:07:20 <vms14       > also the lang is not meant to be used, it expects you to know the internals and extend it
2026-03-21 16:07:54 <vms14       > veltas: it's something i enjoy doing and I think it kind of trains me as a programmer
2026-03-21 16:08:02 <veltas      > Fair
2026-03-21 16:08:14 <vms14       > i see it as a research lab since i can try any random idea or experiment
2026-03-21 16:08:30 <veltas      > I think with a few changes and a few helpful prompts it could make it much more interesting as a demo or to show off
2026-03-21 16:08:40 <veltas      > But that might not be of any value to you
2026-03-21 16:08:45 <vms14       > not really
2026-03-21 16:08:53 <veltas      > Fair enough then
2026-03-21 16:08:54 <vms14       > i mean if someone uses it it's cool
2026-03-21 16:09:08 <veltas      > It's interesting to me, although I can't think of any uses right now
2026-03-21 16:09:20 <veltas      > Like if I wanted to do something with JS / HTML I would just use those
2026-03-21 16:09:40 <vms14       > it's also not in a state where you could replace it for js more than a hello world
2026-03-21 16:10:03 <vms14       > i has full interop with js though so in a way it can do almost everything js can
2026-03-21 16:10:35 <vms14       > i will document it anyways, it's good to learn that skill
2026-03-21 16:10:58 <vms14       > ty for the feedback veltas :D
2026-03-21 16:17:56 <veltas      > No problem