2026-04-17 09:23:33 <veltas      > tpbsd: I'm subscribed to this channel which is pretty good sometimes https://www.youtube.com/@miracleprocess
2026-04-17 09:23:50 <veltas      > You might appreciate them, it's just Chinese manufacturing videos
2026-04-17 09:26:37 <tpbsd       > veltas, thanks! youve discovered one of my vices ;-)
2026-04-17 09:27:30 <tpbsd       > namely Im addicted to every kind of manufacturing process and factory
2026-04-17 09:30:58 <tpbsd       > watching videos about them that is
2026-04-17 09:32:00 <tpbsd       > yay! my AlieX   3.7V 803450 1500mAh Lithium Batteries have shipped, the ones with the protection pcb's :)
2026-04-17 09:33:07 <tpbsd       > this protection chip : https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/learn_tutorials/2/5/1/DW01-P_DataSheet_V10.pdf
2026-04-17 09:33:31 <tpbsd       > how interesting is that ?
2026-04-17 09:34:06 <tpbsd       > no wonder LIPO's have generally stopped exploding and catching file in the last couple of years
2026-04-17 09:34:45 <tpbsd       > this chip controls over volting, over current on charge or discharge etc
2026-04-17 09:34:58 <veltas      > Nice
2026-04-17 09:35:39 <veltas      > I always liked "How It's Made" when I was a teenager
2026-04-17 09:35:46 <tpbsd       > and it's like 20 cents a chip on LCSC
2026-04-17 09:36:07 <tpbsd       > ne too
2026-04-17 09:36:10 <tpbsd       > me too
2026-04-17 09:36:17 <veltas      > I regret not doing Engineering at uni, I wish I had done instead of Maths (and later Computer Science)
2026-04-17 09:37:17 <veltas      > But I am just a hands-on person, I love *doing* stuff and *seeing* results
2026-04-17 09:37:20 <tpbsd       > well a mans life is pretty long ... you can go and study engineering now :)
2026-04-17 09:37:24 <veltas      > More than I love maths
2026-04-17 09:37:39 <veltas      > Well I ended up learning quite a bit of electronic engineering just doing my current job
2026-04-17 09:37:47 <veltas      > And I can always buy some kits and play around
2026-04-17 09:38:06 <veltas      > Not got a lot of spare time at moment though
2026-04-17 09:38:15 <tpbsd       > it has been claimed that one of the most rewarding things a man can do is make things with his hands
2026-04-17 09:38:43 <tpbsd       > yeah, never enough time, especially with a family
2026-04-17 09:39:05 <veltas      > Exactly
2026-04-17 09:39:21 <veltas      > Although my children are a wonderful blessing but yeah I don't get a lot of time for tinkering
2026-04-17 09:39:32 <tpbsd       > Ive spent my entire life making things with my hands and it's been a fun ride
2026-04-17 09:39:51 <veltas      > Have you ever done any horology?
2026-04-17 09:40:19 <tpbsd       > only a while ago, kids learnt how to make things with their hands by watching their fathers
2026-04-17 09:41:00 <veltas      > My 2 year old learns by watching, for sure
2026-04-17 09:41:06 <tpbsd       >  horology? yeah, tons actually
2026-04-17 09:41:07 <veltas      > So funny watching him imitate everything
2026-04-17 09:41:12 <veltas      > With different levels of success
2026-04-17 09:41:22 <tpbsd       > indirectly tho
2026-04-17 09:42:10 <veltas      > You might find this interesting: https://ciechanow.ski/mechanical-watch/
2026-04-17 09:42:19 <tpbsd       > I fixed all kinds of instruments during my life, being a tech, and that involved fixing watch timing machines
2026-04-17 09:43:03 <tpbsd       > then I started upgrading watch timing machines from valves to solid state
2026-04-17 09:43:25 <tpbsd       > every watchmaker had a watch timing machine back then
2026-04-17 09:43:40 <veltas      > That website explains how mechanical watches work, but it also has loads of interactive 3D models that you can play with
2026-04-17 09:43:51 <veltas      > So it's interesting whether you know how they work or not
2026-04-17 09:44:09 <veltas      > I've got a watch timing machine app on my phone that works pretty well
2026-04-17 09:44:38 <veltas      > I used it to tune my mechanical watch so that is gains about 0 seconds a day on average, 1 second a week
2026-04-17 09:44:38 <tpbsd       > yeah, I guess a smartphone could do that pretty well now
2026-04-17 09:44:56 <veltas      > But it goes up and down, I guess depending on what my wrist is doing that day
2026-04-17 09:45:09 <veltas      > And now is less accurate my kid's thrown it around so probably needs tuning again
2026-04-17 09:45:34 <tpbsd       > does it give you a diagonal line that you straighten up as you calibrate the mechanical watch
2026-04-17 09:46:03 <tpbsd       > thats what the old watch timers/counters did, on a thermal printer printout
2026-04-17 09:46:15 <tpbsd       > they were really clever machines
2026-04-17 09:46:59 <tpbsd       > that way the watchmaker could give the customer the printed strip to prove the watch was now timed
2026-04-17 09:47:39 <tpbsd       > but the problem is of course that the temperature and the orientation of the watch affects the timing
2026-04-17 09:47:54 <tpbsd       > theyre really terrible at timekeeping
2026-04-17 09:48:35 <tpbsd       > 0 seconds a day on average, 1 second a week on a mechanical watch ?? thats impossible!
2026-04-17 09:49:12 <tpbsd       > theyre , more like +/- 5 minutes a day when calibrated
2026-04-17 09:55:43 <veltas      > Yes it displays something that looks like an old printout actually
2026-04-17 09:56:33 <veltas      > Modern cheap mechanical watches (like mine) get -4 / +6 seconds a day
2026-04-17 09:57:19 <veltas      > But out the factory, if you've got a good one that's nice and clean etc then it can do much better
2026-04-17 09:57:36 <veltas      > But it only works so well for me if I'm wearing it and using it, if I leave it on a desk it runs slower
2026-04-17 09:57:49 <veltas      > So if I measured it 'scientifically' it would be still like -4/+6
2026-04-17 09:58:23 <veltas      > But if by the end of the week it gets back to about +1 seconds and it didn't move more than a couple seconds out each day then it's pretty nicely calibrated
2026-04-17 10:05:30 <veltas      > It took ages to set this though, the little pin you have to move to adjust this is so tiny that my smallest movements were essentially a random walk
2026-04-17 10:05:53 <veltas      > So it's good I had the app or I would have not been able to tune it just based on daily drift
2026-04-17 10:06:54 <veltas      > A very expensive watch can do like -2/+2, measured/guaranteed, and I think high bpm watches might be able to do better
2026-04-17 10:06:58 <tpbsd       > I've watched watchmakers tune really expensive mechanical watches and dont recll them being that acurate
2026-04-17 10:07:46 <tpbsd       > and new tech wont make mechanical watches better at keeping time I think ?
2026-04-17 10:08:02 <veltas      > The movement I've got is made by epson, probably highly automated using high precision equipment, all simulated in advance etc
2026-04-17 10:08:14 <tpbsd       > just altering thei orientation thros them out by more than that
2026-04-17 10:08:37 <tpbsd       > ie vertical to horizintal
2026-04-17 10:08:41 <veltas      > I think simulations and new synthetic oils, higher precision machining, probably help but fundamentally mechanical watches aren't that different to 30 years ago
2026-04-17 10:09:10 <tpbsd       > they dont use oils, all bearings are jewelled
2026-04-17 10:09:21 <tpbsd       > at least on the expensive ones
2026-04-17 10:09:41 <veltas      > They tiny bits of oil and grease on the jewels although it might run without
2026-04-17 10:10:03 <tpbsd       > I spent about 10 years doing watch timers, hence my strong recollections
2026-04-17 10:10:04 <veltas      > They used to use natural oils and greases and they would "go bad" and need servicing more regularly
2026-04-17 10:10:41 <tpbsd       > Id test my watch on every one as I repaired it
2026-04-17 10:10:53 <veltas      > Ask your AI
2026-04-17 10:11:26 <tpbsd       > a $3 digital kids watch is far more accurate than any mechanical
2026-04-17 10:11:53 <veltas      > Oh yeah
2026-04-17 10:12:16 <veltas      > Anything with a quartz crystal
2026-04-17 10:12:35 <veltas      > Have you seen the Seiko spring drive?
2026-04-17 10:13:10 <tpbsd       > fabric "whats the typical error range in seconds of a modern high quality mechanical watch given variations in local temperature and wrist orientation variations?"
2026-04-17 10:13:11 <veltas      > People have put chip-scale atomic clocks on their wrist too, but that is a bit ridiculous!
2026-04-17 10:13:24 <tpbsd       > no I havent
2026-04-17 10:13:34 <veltas      > Wouldn't even need to say "modern"
2026-04-17 10:13:49 <veltas      > Seiko spring drive is mechanical but uses a quartz crystal for timing
2026-04-17 10:13:54 <tpbsd       > my parents bought me a Citizen watch as a teenager
2026-04-17 10:14:02 <tpbsd       > I had that for many years
2026-04-17 10:14:26 <tpbsd       > oh, why a speing then ?
2026-04-17 10:14:31 <tpbsd       > spring
2026-04-17 10:14:51 <tpbsd       > they usually use a electric motor
2026-04-17 10:15:04 <veltas      > Because it's driven by a wound mainspring
2026-04-17 10:15:56 <tpbsd       > **Overall Real-World Range:** On any given day, under normal temperature and orientation variations, a modern high-quality mechanical watch will deviate between **-1 and +5 seconds**. Over the course of a week, the average usually settles incredibly close to **+1 to +3 seconds per day**.
2026-04-17 10:16:16 <veltas      > Re spring drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVoRoK1u3Dg
2026-04-17 10:16:31 <veltas      > It's all overpriced man jewelry but I find the engineering interesting still
2026-04-17 10:16:46 <tpbsd       > well thats a new reality to me, or my old brain has turned to porridge and invented a fake past!
2026-04-17 10:17:13 <tpbsd       > between **-1 and +5 seconds is 6 seconds a day
2026-04-17 10:17:35 <veltas      > What kinds of mechanical movements were you working with, wrist watch style ones?
2026-04-17 10:19:01 <tpbsd       > I was only useing my citizen watch to test the machines I rebuilt and repaired, but when I returned the machine to the jewler/watchmaker, they would always use it to check some decent watch to verify my work
2026-04-17 10:19:27 <tpbsd       > Im not a watchmaker, I have no special knowledge of mechanical watches
2026-04-17 10:20:07 <tpbsd       > my experience with watch accuracy comes ftom 10 years working with cryctal contrlled watch timing machines
2026-04-17 10:20:41 <tpbsd       > I mean it's great that your watch is so accurate
2026-04-17 10:25:07 <veltas      > And yet cost about £100
2026-04-17 10:25:18 <veltas      > So cheap for mechanical
2026-04-17 10:25:48 <tpbsd       > thats nuts
2026-04-17 10:26:00 <tpbsd       > it's usually $4000
2026-04-17 10:26:01 <veltas      > Epson just are very good at mass producing precision watches
2026-04-17 10:26:08 <tpbsd       > yeah, thats true
2026-04-17 10:26:47 <veltas      > But yeah you want Swiss you pay more like $4000
2026-04-17 10:27:06 <tpbsd       > and RTC chips like the ones I have
2026-04-17 13:17:08 <veltas      > And the swiss watches are better, more repairable and more beautiful.  They often keep better time too.  Apparently Rolex are overrated now which is sad because they used to have a reputation for being the 'watchmakers friend'
2026-04-17 13:17:14 <veltas      > I.e. a pleasure to work on and repair
2026-04-17 13:19:31 <tpbsd       > well, the new world of fakes hasnt helped
2026-04-17 13:21:30 <veltas      > Yeah the fakes are incredible
2026-04-17 13:22:04 <veltas      > I think high end fakes are as repairable as the real deal now
2026-04-17 13:22:29 <veltas      > It used to be a fake would just rust and stop working within a year, or have obvious imperfections
2026-04-17 13:22:40 <veltas      > It's not really the task of experts to identify them
2026-04-17 13:22:43 <veltas      > now*
2026-04-17 13:24:26 <tpbsd       > good point
2026-04-17 13:24:44 <veltas      > They're expensive too
2026-04-17 13:24:59 <veltas      > The best ones cost thousands, but are still wayyyy cheaper than a real Rolex
2026-04-17 13:25:27 <veltas      > People buy them because they want the status but don't value the brand themselves
2026-04-17 13:25:29 <tpbsd       > a whole world of fakes buysers have sprung up, they go on buying trips to the famous fake cities in china to get their new Guci fake handbags etc
2026-04-17 13:25:51 <tpbsd       > and they only want the fakes because theyre so good, but affordable
2026-04-17 13:26:58 <veltas      > I saw a video by some aussie communists that identified that fake shoes are better than the real shoes from brands like Nike etc
2026-04-17 13:27:54 <veltas      > What was funny was they identified the fakes because e.g. instead of using some printing of fake adornments it actually sewed real fabric over, stuff like that
2026-04-17 13:28:01 <veltas      > So the fake was better than the real one
2026-04-17 13:28:21 <veltas      > And there's videos of sports players ripping apart their dreadful shoes they're sponsored to wear
2026-04-17 13:28:25 <tpbsd       > yeah, it's the same with the fake Gucci lovers
2026-04-17 13:40:24 <veltas      > I think often made in the same factory
2026-04-17 13:41:19 <tpbsd       > yeah, Ive heard that, and it makes sense
2026-04-17 13:45:03 <veltas      > Kirkland do the same thing but legally
2026-04-17 13:45:46 <veltas      > They go to brands and basically say "please improve this product and let us sell it cheaper, but you'll have exclusive access to big chunks of costco's market"
2026-04-17 13:46:33 <veltas      > That's why kirkland is so good and also cheaper, because it's pretty much just mainstream brands with some tangible improvement at a low price
2026-04-17 13:46:58 <veltas      > Or 'lower' price, anyway
2026-04-17 13:48:09 <tpbsd       > aha
2026-04-17 13:48:46 <tpbsd       > and only millionaires buy the rediculous high priced stuff anyway. normal folkd never will
2026-04-17 13:51:52 <veltas      > Don't believe that, normal people quite often will spend money they don't have on things they don't need
2026-04-17 13:52:19 <veltas      > I've done it myself, glad my wife sorted me out when she met me and stopped me e.g. shopping at the expensive supermarket etc
2026-04-17 13:52:33 <tpbsd       > good point
2026-04-17 13:53:22 <tpbsd       > especially if theyre depressed at the time etc
2026-04-17 13:54:24 <tpbsd       > I tend to order junk food when Im highly emotional, say like finishing a complex project, or winning lotto ;-)
2026-04-17 14:38:09 <veltas      > I do love the ProggyTinySZ font