2026-04-27 08:41:54 <tpbsd       > ok, my attempt at method to share schematics with simulation on IRC: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/techman00172/schematics/refs/heads/main/TL431.svg
2026-04-27 10:03:53 <veltas      > tpbsd: How accurate are these simulations anyway?  Is it rare to see significant differences on the real thing?
2026-04-27 10:04:58 <veltas      > I wonder how well this would work with larger schematics
2026-04-27 10:05:02 <tpbsd       > veltas, theyre pretty much the industry standard afaik
2026-04-27 10:05:34 <tpbsd       > SPICE has been around for decades, I'd imagine it's good enough now
2026-04-27 10:06:15 <veltas      > Re "I wonder", I mean I wonder how well this would work at displaying a larger or more complicated schematic
2026-04-27 10:06:38 <veltas      > I'm used to schematics that span many pages and are best printed on A3 paper
2026-04-27 10:06:54 <veltas      > I guess you can show one page at a time
2026-04-27 10:06:57 <tpbsd       > apart from possibly needing 'sheets' I cant see an issue
2026-04-27 10:07:18 <veltas      > Yes 'sheet' is the proper term isn't it
2026-04-27 10:08:02 <veltas      > I've got no background in electronics but am comfortable reading schematics simply because I've had to learn it for work
2026-04-27 10:08:03 <tpbsd       > I think qucs can handle any of the designs that people paste here in that circuit.java app
2026-04-27 10:08:28 <veltas      > I don't doubt it given the circuit.java thing is more educational
2026-04-27 10:09:29 <tpbsd       > I'm very conversant with gSchem, it's the schematic capture part of gEDA, but I designed my current system to be easily shared and include a sim
2026-04-27 10:10:30 <tpbsd       > proper schematic captures dont have a sim, they only generate a netlist that can be fed into a sim, thats the proper way, but too complex for sharing thoughts and designs on IRC
2026-04-27 10:10:40 <veltas      > Yeah
2026-04-27 10:11:03 <veltas      > But as far as I can tell, the sim schematic output is legit
2026-04-27 10:11:18 <tpbsd       > so this methos uses a free Github repo, is public viewable, fairly fast and FLOSS
2026-04-27 10:11:35 <veltas      > At the end of the day a schematic is a diagram, so even if it's not a conventional schematic drawing it's still a schematic drawing
2026-04-27 10:11:45 <tpbsd       > yes, the sim in use is 'ngSPICE' which is the successor to SPICE
2026-04-27 10:12:43 <tpbsd       > I wanted a system that was more suitable than circuit.js for advanced electronic hobbyists
2026-04-27 10:13:15 <tpbsd       > people who are no longer beginners and understand more of the typical variables in a cct
2026-04-27 10:13:19 <veltas      > "ng" = "next gen" ?
2026-04-27 10:13:23 <tpbsd       > yes
2026-04-27 10:14:32 <tpbsd       > anything that needs sheets and is a joint project would probably be better served using Fossil anyway
2026-04-27 10:14:38 <veltas      > Looks like it's still actively developed
2026-04-27 10:14:58 <tpbsd       > yeah, I dont think ngSPICE will ever be obsolete
2026-04-27 10:17:14 <tpbsd       > my next public drawing will me a regulated self oscillating inverter, that should be  a good test
2026-04-27 10:18:26 <tpbsd       > because it incorporates a transformer and turns ratios etc
2026-04-27 10:20:10 <tpbsd       > veltas, of course a poorly designed model wont be as suitable as a good one
2026-04-27 10:21:42 <veltas      > atami's gone but no, you don't read the whole file at once.  In fact you should just read one line at a time.  The standard says so, anyway.
2026-04-27 10:23:06 <veltas      > As for multiple files with INCLUDE you open multiple files at once, the state needed would get pushed to return stack, maybe you'd use SAVE-INPUT etc
2026-04-27 10:23:52 <veltas      > The 'buffers' should be provided by the file words or the OS, usually, and there's a word to read one line at a time
2026-04-27 10:25:38 <veltas      > And you can set max line lengths, the latest standard requires 128 chars long at a minimum
2026-04-27 10:25:54 <veltas      > I think ANS Forth required 80 or 82 or something
2026-04-27 10:26:44 <veltas      > No actually looks like ANS required 128 too
2026-04-27 10:28:05 <veltas      > tpbsd: I might play around with ngspice at some point, seems like fun
2026-04-27 10:28:21 <veltas      > Might get me to actually play with a breadboard or something for once
2026-04-27 10:28:57 <tpbsd       > it is excellent fun, but youll need some shell scripts to make it easy, also gnuplot
2026-04-27 10:29:37 <tpbsd       > qucs is a lot easier, and also uses ngspice if preset
2026-04-27 10:30:29 <veltas      > Will try and bear in mind
2026-04-27 10:31:47 <tpbsd       > thats what I used in my link
2026-04-27 10:41:02 <veltas      > ngspice is maintained on debian and qucs is not, unfortunately
2026-04-27 10:41:14 <veltas      > So I will probably try ngspice first
2026-04-27 10:42:51 <tpbsd       > fair enough, qucs is old
2026-04-27 10:43:36 <tpbsd       > it works well enough with shell scripts or even better, a Makefile
2026-04-27 11:24:54 <veltas      > tpbsd: Have you tried SimulIDE?
2026-04-27 11:25:08 <veltas      > That's a simulator that's available on Debian
2026-04-27 11:25:27 <veltas      > The others look really basic or educational so I won't mention them
2026-04-27 11:26:22 <veltas      > This is interesting to me https://simulide.com/p/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/screen5.webp
2026-04-27 11:26:59 <veltas      > https://simulide.com/p/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/screen1.webp
2026-04-27 11:54:52 <Riviera     > veltas: oh that looks cool :)
2026-04-27 14:36:36 <tpbsd       > veltas, no, it's not available on FreeBSD, but then lots isnt nowdays
2026-04-27 14:37:18 <tpbsd       > veltas, there have been many awesome sinulators over the years, but only ngSPICE is still widely available
2026-04-27 14:41:26 <veltas      > Looks like someone on FreeBSD forums was trying to port it in January
2026-04-27 14:41:52 <veltas      > I'm guessing it's just not been done but doesn't exclude FreeBSD per-se, they just focused on Linux
2026-04-27 14:42:28 <veltas      > But yeah I partly use Linux to avoid issues like this, I don't really find this stuff interesting
2026-04-27 14:44:40 <tpbsd       > veltas, I am considering going back to Linux, but I'll have to run 2 pcs, one for a FreeBSD based ZFS file server tho
2026-04-27 14:44:57 <tpbsd       > Linux has lots more apps available thesedays
2026-04-27 14:45:07 <veltas      > ZFS is now officially a Linux project I think
2026-04-27 14:45:09 <tpbsd       > and the Linux kernel is damn good
2026-04-27 14:45:39 <tpbsd       > veltas, no it isnt, ZFS isnt GPL compatible
2026-04-27 14:46:27 <tpbsd       > ZFS is available as a package, but the distros, because of the license, cant include it as a Linux boot option
2026-04-27 14:46:54 <tpbsd       > and I dont trust any Linux file system enough to boot from it
2026-04-27 14:47:30 <veltas      > I mean like the main ZFS development is on Linux now, rather than it being a part of Linux's kernel
2026-04-27 14:47:37 <tpbsd       > besides, the Linux ZFS and the FreeBSD ZFS arent compatible
2026-04-27 14:47:42 <veltas      > Fair
2026-04-27 14:48:36 <tpbsd       > which is a bummer, but I have so much data on ZFS that Id need new large drives and weeks to copy everything over
2026-04-27 14:49:04 <tpbsd       > and thanks to AI, crives and everything are really expensive now
2026-04-27 14:49:47 <veltas      > Do you backup offsite?
2026-04-27 14:50:31 <tpbsd       > no, I only backup my projects to a few identical usb drives, I dont have the resources to back up all my data
2026-04-27 14:50:56 <tpbsd       > I do however have zfs mirrors for all my important data as well
2026-04-27 14:51:26 <tpbsd       > so Ive about 4TB in zfs mirroes
2026-04-27 14:52:08 <veltas      > Do you have any land aside from your industrial building?
2026-04-27 14:54:50 <veltas      > Offsite is a bit more important than mirroring, you could leave a harddrive with a friend or family with some critical data
2026-04-27 14:55:30 <veltas      > That's just my opinion anyway but I guess if something happened to your building you'd lose a lot more than data
2026-04-27 15:02:40 <tpbsd       > yeah, but thanks for the advice :)
2026-04-27 15:03:28 <tpbsd       > hey, veltas you did get me looking around re sims tho, what do you think of this ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP9w3zm1qv4
2026-04-27 15:04:02 <tpbsd       > it's about xyce and xschem
2026-04-27 15:04:37 <tpbsd       > The Xyce™ Parallel Electronic Simulator has been written to support the simulation needs of Sandia National Laboratories’ electrical designers. Xyce™ is a SPICE-compatible simulator with the ability to solve extremely large circuit problems on large-scale parallel computing platforms, but also includes support for most popular parallel and serial computers.
2026-04-27 15:05:24 <tpbsd       > xschem is a Schematic capture and edit program for VLSI/ASIC/Analog designs
2026-04-27 15:11:56 <veltas      > Will have a look after work
2026-04-27 15:12:27 <tpbsd       > oh yeah, some people have to work!
2026-04-27 15:12:43 <tpbsd       > Ive forgotten, now Im retired
2026-04-27 15:21:07 <veltas      > Working hard or hardly working
2026-04-27 15:21:52 <tpbsd       > I worked so hard in my wifi biz I got RSI just from all the orders I wrote!
2026-04-27 15:22:34 <tpbsd       > only white collar govt workers have a eacy life here
2026-04-27 15:22:38 <tpbsd       > easy
2026-04-27 15:24:02 <veltas      > Any sufficiently large corporation is indistinguishable from a govt agency
2026-04-27 21:33:03 <veltas      > Yeah xschem looks nice
2026-04-27 21:36:44 <vms14       > veltas: codeberg sucks btw
2026-04-27 21:37:26 <veltas      > Oh vms14 I recently got "The Mythical Man Month", I've just started reading it
2026-04-27 21:37:50 <veltas      > The author has mentioned God a fair bit so far so you might like it too
2026-04-27 21:38:31 <veltas      > It was published in 1975 but feels like it could have been written yesterday, it's very perceptive and timeless
2026-04-27 21:38:42 <veltas      > Although his writing is obviously a bit old fasioned
2026-04-27 21:41:52 <veltas      > What's wrong with codeberg then?
2026-04-27 21:58:29 <vms14       > i've heard about that book but idk exactly what it is about
2026-04-27 21:59:03 <vms14       > codeberg does not serve my page properly sometimes
2026-04-27 21:59:25 <vms14       > like the server is down xd
2026-04-27 21:59:31 <nmz         > isn't it just about management and putting 1000 of engineers on a problem would reduce the engineering time to a month?
2026-04-27 22:00:11 <vms14       > i'll just come back to gitlab
2026-04-27 22:00:29 <vms14       > i actually sent a message to the sourcehut author saying i'm poor and requesting a free account XD
2026-04-27 22:00:40 <nmz         > hahaha
2026-04-27 22:00:42 <nmz         > did that work?
2026-04-27 22:00:48 <nmz         > I'm also super poor
2026-04-27 22:00:51 <vms14       > i just sent it, so no idea
2026-04-27 22:01:00 <vms14       > but they kind of encouraged me to do so
2026-04-27 22:01:11 <nmz         > you can have a free account
2026-04-27 22:01:17 <nmz         > its just no repo support
2026-04-27 22:01:25 <vms14       > SourceHut never asks for payment from anyone whose financial situation would not comfortably support their subscription fee. We are committed to never pricing anyone out of using our services — hundreds of people have applied for and received financial aid for any number of reasons. Please contact support if you wish to apply for financial support
2026-04-27 22:01:26 <nmz         > no private repo*
2026-04-27 22:01:53 <vms14       > nmz: but i can have a public one? it says free account is not for your own repo, only for contributing to existing ones
2026-04-27 22:02:14 <nmz         > yeah
2026-04-27 22:02:29 <nmz         > well, there's plenty of other options so I've never cared much about it
2026-04-27 22:02:53 <vms14       > i tried gitlab github and codeberg
2026-04-27 22:03:04 <tpbsd       > veltas, xchem is also pretty complex, but has a lot of interesting capability
2026-04-27 22:03:07 <vms14       > and veltas yeah my repo was private lol xd
2026-04-27 22:03:08 <nmz         > you don't want javascript?
2026-04-27 22:03:25 <vms14       > nmz: i abuse js
2026-04-27 22:03:29 <tpbsd       > veltas, apparently Kicad also integrates SPICE now as well
2026-04-27 22:03:35 <nmz         > hmm so why use sourcehut?
2026-04-27 22:03:48 <vms14       > it felt like a better codeberg
2026-04-27 22:04:10 <nmz         > I'd say its leaner, dillo can work in it
2026-04-27 22:04:10 <vms14       > and they seem to have pages that i can use for static hosting
2026-04-27 22:04:13 <nmz         > unlike all of those
2026-04-27 22:04:32 <vms14       > i just want termbin + static hosting, that's why i use git xd
2026-04-27 22:05:03 <vms14       > for example this is the repl for my toy rpn lang
2026-04-27 22:05:06 <vms14       > vms.codeberg.page/oh/oh.html
2026-04-27 22:05:12 <vms14       > ctrl enter shows a textarea
2026-04-27 22:05:41 <vms14       > ctrl up/down the history, ctrl s the stack, f9 the output or errors f10 fullscreen
2026-04-27 22:05:50 <vms14       > ctrl enter evaluates
2026-04-27 22:06:08 <vms14       > i have a bit documented in the readme, but it's not a tutorial
2026-04-27 22:06:11 <vms14       > https://codeberg.org/vms/oh/src/branch/main
2026-04-27 22:06:43 <vms14       > the word "r" resets the stack btw
2026-04-27 22:07:11 <nmz         > a forth written in js
2026-04-27 22:08:16 <veltas      > Why does gforth abort if you use ' with compilation words
2026-04-27 22:08:31 <veltas      > This is why I can't take gforth seriously
2026-04-27 22:09:17 <vms14       > nmz: it's not a forth
2026-04-27 22:09:27 <vms14       > just a stack rpn lang
2026-04-27 22:10:54 <vms14       > i'll just come back to gitlab and if that guys gives me a sourcehut account i will try, if he ignores me, then i will continue with gitlab xd
2026-04-27 22:11:34 <veltas      > I'm just going to continue with GitHub
2026-04-27 22:12:18 <veltas      > If GitHub ever annoys me I just will use GitWeb
2026-04-27 22:12:46 <veltas      > But somehow they've not annoyed me off their platform yet and it's where most people are (were?)
2026-04-27 22:36:53 <veltas      > vms14 have you set up your free Oracle server yet?
2026-04-27 22:43:10 <tpbsd       > I've just started using github myself, but only as a free repo to host my SVG pics and *.sch files
2026-04-27 22:43:46 <tpbsd       > I will never use it for a DCVS because Im already addicted to Fossil DCVS
2026-04-27 23:14:03 <vms14       > veltas: i made an account time ago and never did anything with it
2026-04-27 23:14:09 <vms14       > like years ago xd
2026-04-27 23:55:57 <vms14       > i have gitlab now
2026-04-27 23:56:02 <vms14       > https://ohmycat.gitlab.io/oh/