2026-05-01 00:11:52 <veltas      > This is what I've ended up writing https://paste.debian.net/plainh/2832fbc1
2026-05-01 00:12:04 <veltas      > I'm not exactly happy with it, but it works
2026-05-01 00:13:41 <veltas      > Basically I move the text, and then prepare the WITHIN range for content *not* inside the destination, and loop over the original text locations
2026-05-01 00:13:56 <veltas      > And I blank those that aren't inside the destination
2026-05-01 00:23:19 <veltas      > The copilot code is longer, blanks too much, and doesn't balance the stack correctly
2026-05-01 11:47:01 <veltas      > Top-down or bottom-up programming?
2026-05-01 12:09:27 <veltas      > I don't think there's a right direction, I usually start with what I *know* I need and work my way outwards from those points
2026-05-01 13:27:40 <veltas      > I think I'm at peace with my MOVE-TEXT word, it's not pretty but I can understand what it does if I work through it
2026-05-01 13:27:49 <veltas      > And it's not incredibly long for what it does
2026-05-01 14:05:45 <veltas      > Is termbin.com down for anyone else?  I can't open port 9999
2026-05-01 14:07:36 <veltas      > The internet is so f***ed
2026-05-01 14:09:39 <KipIngram   > Re: top-down / bottom-up, I usually do early thinking top down, but eventually zero in on what I think the most important little bits are for the overall performance and then write those first.  In a Forth system that will usually be the "inner interpreter."
2026-05-01 14:10:23 <KipIngram   > But then for the higher level stuff I usually start with QUIT and the stuff in it and build down - that tends to define which words are necessary for the system itself, and then I fill in the other words I want last.
2026-05-01 14:10:44 <KipIngram   > So I guess in a sense I start at the bottom and the top and meet in the middle.
2026-05-01 14:11:04 <tpbsd       > 
ACTION fights his way thru learning Xschem and ngspice SIM

2026-05-01 14:11:18 <veltas      > Fight the good fight Terry
2026-05-01 14:11:23 <tpbsd       > hahah
2026-05-01 14:11:52 <tpbsd       > Ive made all the dumbass mistakes now, so only the clever mistakes are left!
2026-05-01 14:12:18 <veltas      > There are always more dumbass mistakes
2026-05-01 14:13:02 <veltas      > Well I would like to share my block listings with you guys but I'll wait on my support email from termbin.com for now
2026-05-01 14:16:12 <KipIngram   > tpbsd: A long time ago I used gschem and PCB.  But I didn't do any of that sort of thing for a number of years, and when I went back to it a couple years ago to design a new pool controller (a lightning strike took out my old one), I found those tools and their descendants to be too hard to get working.  I wound up going with KiCAD instead, and it served pretty well.
2026-05-01 14:16:34 <KipIngram   > It seems to receive a lot more development attention these days.
2026-05-01 14:16:44 <tpbsd       > it sure does
2026-05-01 14:16:57 <KipIngram   > I couldn't really find gschem at all, but xschem appeared to be its "derivative."
2026-05-01 14:17:09 <tpbsd       > gschem became lepton and it's good, but the same
2026-05-01 14:17:25 <KipIngram   > I also found the KiCAD dev community to be friendly and responsive.
2026-05-01 14:17:54 <tpbsd       > Lepton is the rewrite in C I believe, Ive used it and it looks the same as gschem, reads all my old gschem schemas fine
2026-05-01 14:18:24 <KipIngram   > Fortunately I didn't have a bunch of old schematics to support, so it was easy enough to do a clean slate change.
2026-05-01 14:19:03 <tpbsd       > KipIngram, all the old Unix apps are getting really old now, and a few have stopped being maintained since a few years ago, gschem is one
2026-05-01 14:19:22 <KipIngram   > At some point I'd like to write some tools to let me couple KiCAD and ngspice together more "automatically."
2026-05-01 14:20:21 <KipIngram   > One thing I love about all of those tools is how they use readable text files to store everything.
2026-05-01 14:20:24 <tpbsd       > kicad has a built in ngspice support now I believe, but my AI said it was "an afterthought"
2026-05-01 14:20:39 <KipIngram   > Yes, I did find it to be "afterthought like."
2026-05-01 14:20:49 <tpbsd       > yeah, readable text makes for easy DCVS
2026-05-01 14:20:51 <KipIngram   > I think I can work up something better, but it will be a bit of a project.
2026-05-01 14:21:10 <KipIngram   > Once a long time ago I realized I'd misdesigned a whole bunch of vias in a PCB layout.
2026-05-01 14:21:34 <KipIngram   > The PCB tool would have required me to edit them one by one, but I was able to do a global search and replace in the text file and adjust them all in a go.
2026-05-01 14:21:36 <KipIngram   > Huge win.
2026-05-01 14:22:10 <KipIngram   > Of course, the editor didn't guarantee design rules, but I was able to run that check after.
2026-05-01 14:22:12 <tpbsd       > yeah, Kicad has the critical mass now
2026-05-01 14:22:49 <tpbsd       > Ive seen some awesome boards made using Kicad, some over 4 years ago
2026-05-01 14:23:26 <tpbsd       > Ive always used PCB for making my boards, but the last board I made was in 2000
2026-05-01 14:23:47 <KipIngram   > I actually put thath pool controller together by hand, but I decided after I had it in and working that I wanted a "proper" version of it, so that was the KiCAD project.
2026-05-01 14:24:08 <KipIngram   > That version is "done," but not fabricated / tested yet.
2026-05-01 14:24:19 <KipIngram   > I did add some LEDs to it, though, so I can run it and test it uninstalled.
2026-05-01 14:24:33 <KipIngram   > I just need to get around to doing that - most of the parts are in my toolbox in the garage.
2026-05-01 14:24:43 <tpbsd       > and now that I'm gearing up to possibly design some more, I'll stick with it because the good old cheap Chinese board makers are struggling under the cost of copper and pcb material now
2026-05-01 14:25:04 <tpbsd       > so I'll just make any I need here
2026-05-01 14:25:14 <KipIngram   > PCB was the obvious choice back in those days.
2026-05-01 14:25:27 <tpbsd       > yes, and it's still going
2026-05-01 14:25:29 <KipIngram   > And I always regarded it as a more polished app than gschem.
2026-05-01 14:25:48 <KipIngram   > Pretty interface too.
2026-05-01 14:26:02 <tpbsd       > gschem was great in the day, but Lepton is exactly the same, functionality wise
2026-05-01 14:26:07 <KipIngram   > I always felt like gschem schematics looked kind of clunky.
2026-05-01 14:26:23 <KipIngram   > Back then, at least.
2026-05-01 14:26:43 <tpbsd       > I always used gschem because the first schematic cap I used was Orcad for DOS at work, and gschem is a lot like it
2026-05-01 14:27:30 <tpbsd       > Ive had to use some real horrors at workplaces, ie protel or the current version
2026-05-01 14:27:44 <KipIngram   > I actually can't remember what tool we used back at BP Micro when I did that stuff for money.
2026-05-01 14:28:17 <tpbsd       > I learnt on PADS-PCB an American professional PCB CAD for DOS
2026-05-01 14:28:52 <tpbsd       > it had all the usual stuff, netlists, ECO's,
2026-05-01 14:29:23 <tpbsd       > we paid $5000 USD for a dongle protected copy in 1987
2026-05-01 14:30:26 <tpbsd       > hahah, I phoned the maker in the USA and spoke to a woman, I asked if they had a agent in australia ? "we sure do" she replied, it's in the town of New Zealand
2026-05-01 14:30:54 <tpbsd       > so we just bought a copy via our USA office and had it shipped to us
2026-05-01 14:35:12 <veltas      > Such an 80's american mistake
2026-05-01 14:35:25 <veltas      > I think these days americans are a bit better with the world map
2026-05-01 14:35:56 <veltas      > Not that I lived through the 80's
2026-05-01 14:38:11 <veltas      > Hey KipIngram what did americans think of Charles then?
2026-05-01 14:46:35 <KipIngram   > Hahahaha...  (New Zealand).
2026-05-01 14:46:43 <KipIngram   > You mean "Prince Charles"?
2026-05-01 14:46:59 <KipIngram   > I didn't think about him a whole lot, but he always seemed fine to me.
2026-05-01 14:47:32 <KipIngram   > We mostly heard about him in connection with Di.  She was the one that attracted all the attention for the most part.
2026-05-01 14:48:31 <KipIngram   > Who we heard about most (back then, in the 80's) was Thatcher of course.
2026-05-01 14:48:37 <KipIngram   > I was a huge fan.
2026-05-01 14:49:40 <tpbsd       > oh boy I jumped from the easy sim into the hardcore stuff
2026-05-01 14:49:51 <KipIngram   > I'm sure neither she nor Reagan were as perfect as I thought back at the time, but I was wearing a young person's rose-colored glasses.
2026-05-01 14:50:02 <KipIngram   > Sim is a deep hole.
2026-05-01 14:50:22 <tpbsd       > now I have to make sure that the LM324.mod pin names and numbers are the same as the schematic for the part in Xschem
2026-05-01 14:51:08 <KipIngram   > Once you start really caring about analog sim then component models and all their gory details begin to become important.\
2026-05-01 14:51:10 <tpbsd       > I dont think they are because the sim output is fubar with the part
2026-05-01 14:51:31 <tpbsd       > I can see why the become *my precious*
2026-05-01 14:52:21 <tpbsd       > but at least my AI is coming in very handy now as I wade thru the correct methods
2026-05-01 14:52:51 <KipIngram   > I don't think I've ever done a spice analysis with an IC in it.  Always just discrete parts.
2026-05-01 14:53:00 <tpbsd       > Im doing all the design, it's just helping me learn how the paperwork is done
2026-05-01 14:53:48 <tpbsd       > discrete are easy, the IC's are all so proprietary and precious, tho some mfrs give them away
2026-05-01 14:53:55 <tpbsd       > for their chips
2026-05-01 14:54:54 <KipIngram   > Well, even a transistor can get a lot of details hooked to it in spice if you need a fully equipped model.  There are tons of parameters that can affect the sim.
2026-05-01 14:55:00 <tpbsd       > here is my first component only xschem schema   https://raw.githubusercontent.com/techman00172/schematics/refs/heads/main/test.svg
2026-05-01 14:55:10 <KipIngram   > But hopefully the manufacturer just gives you a .model line.
2026-05-01 14:55:47 <tpbsd       > and the output    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/techman00172/schematics/refs/heads/main/test-wave.svg
2026-05-01 14:56:15 <tpbsd       > svg for now, hopefully it's readable
2026-05-01 15:09:40 <veltas      > KipIngram: He's King Charles now actually
2026-05-01 15:10:12 <veltas      > Just wondering what the US's impression of his visit was, if anything
2026-05-01 15:10:46 <veltas      > From a true USAsian
2026-05-01 15:30:48 <veltas      > Just got an email along lines of "I am a fan of your github, your xxxxx repo with over 50 stars is clearly admired, can you check out my browser extension", looked auto generated.
2026-05-01 15:31:17 <veltas      > What's surprising to me here is that people are trying to phish people with popular github repos, surely those people are less likely to click on anything like that?
2026-05-01 15:39:47 <tpbsd       > what a cruel world!
2026-05-01 15:40:40 <tpbsd       > veltas, definitely a bot trying to raise the clicks on a site ?
2026-05-01 15:41:03 <stuart      > Or just spray and pray.
2026-05-01 15:41:40 <stuart      > Hacker can have a 0.1% hit rate, but at a thousand spam emails sent, that's someone backdoored.
2026-05-01 15:43:35 <tpbsd       > stuart, but browers are safe with extensions ?
2026-05-01 15:44:02 <stuart      > Oh, yes, totally. :D
2026-05-01 15:44:08 <tpbsd       > haha
2026-05-01 15:45:06 <tpbsd       > A friend made a Forth terminal for chrome as it was the only browser that would let him access serial devices, FF for instance just refuses
2026-05-01 15:45:41 <tpbsd       > chromium also refuses (iirc)
2026-05-01 15:46:35 <tpbsd       > he had a really hard time even getting chrome to allow him to access a serial port after the user selects one from a list of serial ports available
2026-05-01 18:46:38 <veltas      > Here we go errbody https://termbin.com/myz9
2026-05-01 18:50:21 <veltas      > So this is block listing, block editor, visual editor, rewritten over not too long
2026-05-01 18:50:40 <veltas      > As I don't get a lot of time
2026-05-01 18:51:01 <veltas      > I've literally got two people shouting at me right now including an adult so I'll get back to that :)