2026-05-28 02:43:44 <tabemann    > back
2026-05-28 02:44:59 <xentrac     > front
2026-05-28 02:45:00 <tabemann    > MrMobius, I can map Cyrillic characters to Russian phonemes without reference (slowly), but I never remember the alternate forms of certain Cyrillic characters
2026-05-28 02:46:00 <tabemann    > certain things trip me up, such as all the sibilants, though
2026-05-28 02:47:25 <xentrac     > shch
2026-05-28 02:47:30 <tabemann    > yeah
2026-05-28 02:47:54 <tabemann    > I have trouble with sh, shch, ts, and ch
2026-05-28 02:48:11 <tabemann    > can never keep straight which is which
2026-05-28 02:49:04 <tabemann    > and what I meant by "italic" is the alternate forms
2026-05-28 02:50:11 <tabemann    > like the version of И that loks like a Latin U
2026-05-28 02:50:17 <tabemann    > *looks
2026-05-28 02:52:11 <tabemann    > and yes, I don't know Russian
2026-05-28 02:53:30 <tabemann    > the only languages I can claim to know other than English are a bit of German and an even smaller bit of Japanese
2026-05-28 02:55:47 <xentrac     > my German is terrible.  even my Pascal is better
2026-05-28 02:57:16 <tabemann    > ich kann nur ein bisschen Deutsch sprechen, und ich kann ein bisschen mehr Deutsch verstehne
2026-05-28 02:57:22 <tabemann    > *verstehen
2026-05-28 02:58:31 <tabemann    > my problem with German is that I have a hard time remembering genders or less frequent native German words without English cognates or obvious Latin or French loaning
2026-05-28 02:59:04 <tabemann    > I'm getting slowly better at keeping my der's, die's, and das's apart, but only slowly
2026-05-28 03:05:14 <tabemann    > okay, I do know a bit of French and a bit of Spanish -- je ne parle pas francais (yeah, can't figure out how to type c-cedilla on this keyboard layout) and no hablo español
2026-05-28 05:59:57 <Stalevar    > tabemann, щ is same as sh, but soft. But I guess it's hard to make distinction between hard and soft consonants if your language doesn't have it?
2026-05-28 06:00:42 <Stalevar    > Actually, if cyrillic rules were consistent Щ wouldn't exist as separate letter, it would be Ш with specific vowel or soft sign Ь
2026-05-28 06:01:51 <Stalevar    > But Щ was previous a digraph of ШТ which it is still pronounced as in some Slavic languages while in Russian it evolved into soft Ш and lost t component
2026-05-28 06:02:32 <Stalevar    > And you have ц in English, pizza
2026-05-28 06:04:58 <xentrac     > it's sweat's pizza slits Yates masticates, sensationalists!
2026-05-28 06:09:19 <xentrac     > http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/pronunciation-dictionary has 6212 such words
2026-05-28 06:12:27 <xentrac     > even ts[aeiouɛɪʊəɑæᵻɐʌɔ] finds 282 candidates: pretzels ersatzes Stieglitz's Mutsuhito Mozart outsourcing pizzas kibbutz's etc.
2026-05-28 06:13:39 <xentrac     > but at the beginning of the word, there's only Tsiolkovsky, Tsongkhapa, czarina, tsarina, tsunami, tzarina, and their inflected forms
2026-05-28 06:13:56 <Stalevar    > Tzar?
2026-05-28 06:14:26 <Stalevar    > It should also be with ц because it's царь in Russian (sort of king but not quite)
2026-05-28 06:14:34 <xentrac     > oh, well, I guess my regex is not good enough because "tzar" is "tsˈɑːɹ"
2026-05-28 06:15:02 <Stalevar    > Циолковский is of course with Ц, it's Russian scientist
2026-05-28 06:15:33 <Stalevar    > One who invented the multi-stage rockets and got all the theory of space flight
2026-05-28 06:15:40 <xentrac     > yes!
2026-05-28 06:15:47 <xentrac     > before Goddard or that German dude
2026-05-28 06:16:07 <Stalevar    > Verner von Brown actually built the rockets though
2026-05-28 06:16:09 <xentrac     > unfortunately because Russian society was horrible at the time he died in obscurity
2026-05-28 06:16:17 <xentrac     > Goddard did too actually
2026-05-28 06:16:33 <xentrac     > von Braun was working from Oberth's independent research
2026-05-28 06:16:34 <Stalevar    > I don't even know who it is, so I guess it counts as obscurity
2026-05-28 06:16:46 <xentrac     > no, I mean Циолковский
2026-05-28 06:17:02 <Stalevar    > He's pretty well-known in Russia
2026-05-28 06:17:09 <Stalevar    > I don't think it's obscurity?
2026-05-28 06:17:10 <xentrac     > he is NOW!  but the journal he published his findings in was suppressed because it was suspected of being subversive
2026-05-28 06:17:43 <tabemann    > back
2026-05-28 06:17:52 <xentrac     > he survived until 01935 in his log cabin
2026-05-28 06:18:40 <xentrac     > but yeah he was THE DUDE who figured all this stuff out
2026-05-28 06:19:12 <xentrac     > but I guess he became well-known before he died
2026-05-28 06:19:57 <xentrac     > egrep ' tsˈ?[aeiouɛɪʊəɑæᵻɐʌɔ]' ~/dev3/pronunciation-dictionary yields not just "tsar" and its variants but also "Tsitsihar", "Tsingtao", and "Tsimshian"
2026-05-28 06:20:31 <xentrac     > I think most English speakers analyze "pizza" as "pit-sa" rather than "pi-tsa"
2026-05-28 06:20:58 <tabemann    > in my dialect of English "pizza" is /"pitts@/
2026-05-28 06:21:06 <tabemann    > it's geminate
2026-05-28 06:21:22 <tabemann    > it contrasts with "Nazi", which is /"na.tsi/
2026-05-28 06:21:26 <xentrac     > > After the October Revolution, the Cheka jailed [Tsiolkovsky] in the Lubyanka prison for several weeks.[24]
2026-05-28 06:23:51 <xentrac     > ...but he still supported the Revolution and eventually bequeathed his possessions to the Soviet state!
2026-05-28 06:37:54 <Stalevar    > By the way I got MK52 running
2026-05-28 06:38:51 <Stalevar    > So $6 for real RPN programming device with hard plastic keys and electrolumeniscent screeen
2026-05-28 06:39:01 <xentrac     > fantastic!
2026-05-28 06:39:30 <Stalevar    > Plus $1 for four capacitors, 2.2, 4.7, 4.7, 33
2026-05-28 06:39:44 <Stalevar    > It should have been 22, but wasn't available
2026-05-28 06:39:52 <Stalevar    > 33µF 50V worked
2026-05-28 07:38:42 <MrMobius    > so just replacing caps?
2026-05-28 07:39:31 <MrMobius    > I should figure out how to fix my MK-61. IIRC the missing digit could be from a chip going bad not just the screen dying
2026-05-28 09:48:46 <Stalevar    > MrMobius, isn't it easier to buy new one?
2026-05-28 09:49:42 <Stalevar    > You could probably connect an oscilloscope to missing digit and compare with working one
2026-05-28 09:50:19 <Stalevar    > If same voltage changes depending on whether it should be lit or not, then it is probably screen, if it doesn't then it's contact or chip
2026-05-28 09:50:33 <Stalevar    > could be just broken contact maybe resoldering a leg will help
2026-05-28 09:51:13 <MrMobius    > ya good idea
2026-05-28 09:57:30 <Stalevar    > MrMobius, the problem is that I am trying to dump entire 512 byte storage and write it down before wiping and using for my own programs, but what I get doesn't make sense
2026-05-28 10:58:03 <Stalevar    > What I don't quite understand is why obelus ÷ is ubiquitous on calculators even those made in USSR where obelus isn't used as division sign on paper
2026-05-28 12:04:58 <xentrac     > probably they were imitating US calculators
2026-05-28 12:05:33 <xentrac     > there was an unfortunately large part of Soviet information technology that imitated the US instead of doing something better
2026-05-28 12:58:23 <MrMobius    > Stalevar: we use it on paper in the US
2026-05-28 12:59:28 <Stalevar    > It looks weird, honestly isn't / easier even on paper?
2026-05-28 13:00:16 <Stalevar    > In Russia elementary school they teach to use colon, but in high school and university fractions are usually written in horizontal lines and : is phased out
2026-05-28 13:12:47 <veltas      > In the UK we use that symbol on paper / in books for primary school, i.e. young kids.  By later secondary school / teenagers we use the slash or proper numerator-over-denominator fractions
2026-05-28 13:13:02 <veltas      > So it's not used much outside of calculators and for teaching early arithmetic
2026-05-28 13:13:25 <veltas      > We use colon for ratios only
2026-05-28 15:39:05 <Stalevar    > cleobuline, did you install MK61 emulator?
2026-05-28 15:42:55 <cleobuline  > non je parle pas russe
2026-05-28 15:50:01 <Stalevar    > cleobuline, you don't need to
2026-05-28 23:53:31 <Nicholaus_Staff> [Network Announcement] Libera staff requests a respectful minute of silence in honor of Harambe's memory on the 10th anniversary of His death. R.I.P. Harambe (May 27, 1999 - May 28, 2016)