2026-06-21 01:59:56 <forthBot    > Environment for cleobuline inactive, freeing...
2026-06-21 06:48:09 <xentrac     > oak: I tried listening to what smarter people said, because there are a lot of them and they know a lot of things I don't, and I also tried listening to dumber people.  none of that worked.  doing things myself did
2026-06-21 06:49:24 <xentrac     > work.
2026-06-21 06:49:45 <xentrac     > I suspect it would have worked worse without listening first
2026-06-21 06:53:33 <dave0       > xentrac: very logical .. you gotta keep an open mind
2026-06-21 06:56:02 <dave0       > xentrac: i took a similar systematic approach to religion
2026-06-21 06:56:48 <dave0       > i figured people who know about religion go to church, so i went to church to talk to those people
2026-06-21 06:57:07 <xentrac     > what did you learn?
2026-06-21 06:57:23 <dave0       > i found out they didnt know anything
2026-06-21 06:57:55 <dave0       > well not exactly nothing .. some of the people knew the bible pretty well
2026-06-21 06:58:43 <dave0       > so i read the bible :-)
2026-06-21 06:58:57 <xentrac     > depending on the church, you may find people who have had mystical experiences and have various interpretations of them
2026-06-21 06:58:59 <dave0       > but also i read quran
2026-06-21 06:59:45 <xentrac     > both of those describe a lot of mystical experiences
2026-06-21 07:00:16 <dave0       > xentrac: the thing i remember about it was that i would ask someone a question about religion, and i would ask someone else the same question, and i got two different answers back
2026-06-21 07:02:31 <dave0       > xentrac: at first i was like "okay, which answer is correct" but as i asked more people more questions it got to "none of their answers are correct"
2026-06-21 07:02:53 <dave0       > xentrac: so then, like you said, i decided i had to do it myself :-)
2026-06-21 07:05:13 <dave0       > i think in a way it was a waste of time because i didnt get answers to my questions ... but i think in another way it answered a question that i didnt ask
2026-06-21 07:05:56 <dave0       > i learned that to do it right, i had to do it myself
2026-06-21 07:06:43 <dave0       > it wasnt somehing that i could take someone's word for
2026-06-21 07:09:17 <xentrac     > yeah.  although if you want to learn about mystical experiences, there are lots of people who are eager to tell you about theirs
2026-06-21 07:09:25 <xentrac     > like, way more than the authors of the quran and the bible
2026-06-21 07:09:47 <xentrac     > a lot of whom also seem to have had them
2026-06-21 07:10:35 <xentrac     > a problem is that a lot of them are extremely enthusiastic about their own personal conceptual understanding of the experience
2026-06-21 07:10:54 <xentrac     > which turn out to vary a lot more than the experiences themselves do
2026-06-21 07:12:46 <dave0       > i think they make good stories :-)
2026-06-21 07:13:17 <dave0       > once i had magic mushrooms and the leaves on the trees and the grass turned blue colour
2026-06-21 07:13:40 <dave0       > once i got stoned and said i should paint the ceiling
2026-06-21 07:13:50 <xentrac     > you can do that just by looking through blue plastic though
2026-06-21 07:14:15 <dave0       > xentrac: brains are funny things
2026-06-21 09:33:13 <pyzozord    > 02hi, can you recommend any videos of talks or programming sessions in forth that idiomatic, and good for learning basics the right way?
2026-06-21 09:46:44 <Stalevar    > dave0, is there a church of forth?
2026-06-21 09:47:08 <iv4nshm4k0v > Only that of Emacs, methinks.
2026-06-21 09:47:18 <dave0       > hi pyzozord from ##programming
2026-06-21 09:48:09 <dave0       > Stalevar: you could write one in forth :-)
2026-06-21 09:48:26 <Stalevar    > pyzozord, I was also wondering what to read to learn Forth. Most reads would spend tens of pages of explaining RPN which is obvious
2026-06-21 09:49:56 <Stalevar    > But I have talked with LLM, and it said that variable name just pushes the address into stack, while @ or ! picks it up.
2026-06-21 09:50:03 <pyzozord    > 02dave0: hi o/
2026-06-21 09:50:32 <Stalevar    > Also I noticed that there are forward facing words like VARIABLE or VALUE or TO or :
2026-06-21 09:51:51 <iv4nshm4k0v > Those are words that EXPECT a string after them.  Basically, you define such a word so it reads the string that follows them in the input stream.
2026-06-21 10:38:54 <lofty       > https://gist.github.com/Ravenslofty/46198e72827829a4d2c39a24ae50fcec <--- my forth can interpret basic expressions, though compilation is still some ways off
2026-06-21 16:23:35 <Stalevar    > : TEST-STRING S" This should be thirty--two bytes" ;  ok TEST-STRING TYPE This should be thirty--two bytes ok
2026-06-21 16:23:35 <Stalevar    > TEST-STRING drop dup 8462097068527546201 swap ! 8 + dup 7308533453542024300 swap ! 8 + dup 2335244403110605683 swap ! 8 + dup 2948282169779565 swap !  ok
2026-06-21 16:23:35 <Stalevar    > TEST-STRING TYPE You shouldn't mess with memory        ok
2026-06-21 16:35:53 <iv4nshm4k0v > Doesn't the final DUP leave an unused address at stack above?
2026-06-21 17:51:48 <Stalevar    > Hm, probably
2026-06-21 17:52:29 <Stalevar    > forthBot:  : TEST-STRING S" This should be thirty--two bytes" ; TEST-STRING TYPE
2026-06-21 17:52:29 <forthBot    > Error: S" expects a string ending with "S
2026-06-21 17:52:43 <Stalevar    > forthBot:  : TEST-STRING S" This should be thirty--two bytes "S ; TEST-STRING TYPE
2026-06-21 17:52:44 <forthBot    > Error: Unknown word: TYPE
2026-06-21 17:52:49 <Stalevar    > forthBot:  : TEST-STRING S" This should be thirty--two bytes "S ; TEST-STRING
2026-06-21 17:53:08 <lofty       > Error: S" expects a string ending with "S <-- that's just not compliant
2026-06-21 17:53:36 <Stalevar    > forthBot: . . CR
2026-06-21 17:53:37 <forthBot    > 1
2026-06-21 17:53:37 <forthBot    > 0
2026-06-21 17:59:07 <Stalevar    > forthBot: : TYPE ( addr u -- ) 0 do dup i + c@ emit loop ;
2026-06-21 17:59:07 <forthBot    > Unknown word in definition: do
2026-06-21 19:59:07 <forthBot    > Environment for Stalevar inactive, freeing...
2026-06-21 22:00:58 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  S" a string "S   PRINT
2026-06-21 22:01:34 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  LOAD ini.fth
2026-06-21 22:01:34 <forthBot    > File ini.fth with MOON  loaded
2026-06-21 22:01:46 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  SEE CREDIT
2026-06-21 22:01:46 <forthBot    > : CREDIT ." Brought to you by Cleobuline updated with hashtable with the help of Grok  https://github.com/cleobuline/forth-bot-gmp-irc-tCR ;
2026-06-21 23:29:56 <cleobuline  > forthBot:   STRING  A
2026-06-21 23:30:43 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  S" A string "S A !
2026-06-21 23:32:33 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  A @ PRINT CR
2026-06-21 23:32:34 <forthBot    > a string A string
2026-06-21 23:33:03 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  A @ PRINT CR
2026-06-21 23:33:03 <forthBot    > A string
2026-06-21 23:36:41 <cleobuline  > voila Stalevar
2026-06-21 23:54:38 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  STRING B S" A string B "S B !
2026-06-21 23:54:46 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  CR
2026-06-21 23:55:07 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  B @ PRINT CR
2026-06-21 23:55:07 <forthBot    > A string B