2026-08-18 03:10:42 <X-Scale     > looolool
2026-08-18 09:43:26 <cleobuline  > hello world
2026-08-18 10:33:08 <enyc        > 
ACTION ROARs cleobuline 

2026-08-18 10:33:23 <enyc        > cleobuline: some people speak in this channel, do stick around =
2026-08-18 10:33:34 <cleobuline  > yes
2026-08-18 10:34:33 <cleobuline  > enyc:  do you have a macintosh ?
2026-08-18 10:34:52 <cleobuline  > forthBot:  23 34 * .
2026-08-18 10:34:52 <forthBot    > 782
2026-08-18 10:40:39 <enyc        > cleobuline: no, I do not.
2026-08-18 10:40:51 <enyc        > Thinkpads however, Linux, etc yes.
2026-08-18 10:43:40 <enyc        > I wonder why Forth in debian packages associated with bios/firmware ...  OpenBIOS and PCI-rom, etc. mentioned.
2026-08-18 10:48:17 <cleobuline  > dommage
2026-08-18 11:12:52 <veltas      > enyc: Exactly because BIOS firmware was written in Forth for some platforms
2026-08-18 11:52:43 <enyc        > I see, looks usually-old but some interesting cases I hear.
2026-08-18 11:53:10 <enyc        > What unique advantages does Forth have for writing bios/firmware like that?  Why not in native assembler and C and so-on ?
2026-08-18 12:34:52 <forthBot    > Environment for cleobuline inactive, freeing...
2026-08-18 13:27:46 <xentrac     > enyc: OpenBoot aka OpenFirmware is independent of the CPU architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware
2026-08-18 13:28:43 <xentrac     > basically Sun wanted to give plug-in card vendors a way to write option ROMs for their plug-in cards that wasn't i386 code
2026-08-18 13:28:49 <xentrac     > or 8086 code
2026-08-18 13:30:41 <xentrac     > or 68000 code, or SPARC code
2026-08-18 13:32:15 <xentrac     > I don't know the internal rationale for this, but I suspect that Sun wanted their workstations to be able to use plug-in cards that were designed for IBM-compatibles
2026-08-18 13:40:00 <xentrac     > alternatively, maybe Sun wanted the flexibility to change to an incompatible instruction set architecture themselves; at that point they'd already shipped 68000-based machines, i386-based machines, and SPARC-based machines
2026-08-18 13:41:17 <xentrac     > OpenBoot also worked as a pretty kickass ROM monitor, which is handy when you're debugging an OS kernel, which I imagine was a thing that Sun engineers spent a significant amount of time doing at the time
2026-08-18 14:00:50 <veltas      > I guess equivalent today is ACPI machine language ?
2026-08-18 14:01:22 <veltas      > Amazing how many problems on computers get turned into a VM
2026-08-18 14:05:01 <enyc        > xentrac: aaah tat figures  however ....
2026-08-18 14:05:15 <enyc        > xentrac: I recall  DEC alpha or  Sun Sparcshahion  (can't remeber which etc)  had interesting property
2026-08-18 14:05:28 <enyc        > xentrac: it contained x86 emulation to run the VGA Option Rom bios
2026-08-18 14:07:15 <enyc        > however that only woreked on earlier cards, maybe they started using protected-mode when didn't before, and so-on.
2026-08-18 14:10:35 <xentrac     > I don't know anything about ACPI except that it never works right
2026-08-18 14:12:25 <veltas      > Broadly speaking, as a firmware developer, you should never run firmware
2026-08-18 14:13:36 <xentrac     > hahaha
2026-08-18 14:13:48 <veltas      > If you do have to run it, never update it
2026-08-18 14:14:51 <veltas      > Knowing there is firmware necessary to boot every machine gives me a chill like thinking about how everyone secretly has a skeleton inside them
2026-08-18 14:17:10 <xentrac     > you may have to build your own machine