2024-03-29 01:30:44 <crc         > I don't have an index of old release notes, but will work on assembling one. (It might be somewhat difficult for some of the older releases, as I'm not sure they all actually included notes)
2024-03-29 01:31:17 <crc         > for retroforth, best to stick to the documentation on retroforth.org and the stuff in the releases/snapshots
2024-03-29 01:33:45 <crc         > konilo is much like retroforth, but it's a distinct system from the main implementation and shouldn't be considered as a successor or direct replacement
2024-03-29 01:34:10 <nature      > Hey crc, thanks for the answers, the reason I asked about the release notes is that I wanted to figure out why 2dup was changed to dup-pair and same for drop
2024-03-29 01:36:33 <nature      > Oh interesting, what is konilo good at? because checking the ilo repo, I saw there is some doc about graphica for instance, which seems to be valid for both ilo and nga. Am I maybe confusing retroforth and nga? I get that ilo and nga are the vms and retroforth and konilo the forth systems running on those vms, but besides that I am not sure I grasp the differences properly.
2024-03-29 01:52:34 <crc         > There's some degree of overlap. Konilo is better suited for smaller targets, and has less host dependencies. But it's also much more self contained. It uses blocks exclusively, lacks any host file i/o, sockets, etc.
2024-03-29 01:53:49 <crc         > The graphica stuff is being developed for both ilo & nga. I have some interest in keeping a degree of compatibility between systems.
2024-03-29 01:55:35 <crc         > On naming, I never really liked the 2dup, 2drop naming. Some versions of Retro 11 had a 2 sigil to run/compile a word twice, so would allow 2drop to be an alias for drop drop, or 2over to do the role of dup-pair
2024-03-29 02:00:44 <nature      > I see, so it really stems from a personal preference. I always felt the "2words" where quite nice and concise, carried a lot of meaning in a few characters so it's less tenuous to read.
2024-03-29 02:02:02 <crc         > retroforth has evolved to longer names over the years
2024-03-29 02:04:19 <nature      > Do you feel it made the source clearer?
2024-03-29 02:04:26 <crc         > I think the average is around 8 characters now (including the namespace prefixes)
2024-03-29 02:05:28 <crc         > for me, yes. I have an easier time reading and remembering how things work since switching to somewhat longer names.
2024-03-29 02:11:51 <nature      > Got it, I'll give retroforth a spin in the coming days, I really like the effort put on simplicity and documentation around it. Thanks for your efforts!